Has The Fight For Abortion Rights Been Lost?

Getting an abortion is more difficult today than at any point since the 1970s. Is the pro-choice movement losing the battle?

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Jamie Chung for TIME

A patient at Red River clinic awaits consultation with a doctor

TIME Magazine, Jan. 14, 2013

Cover Photograph by Jamie Chung for TIME

In January 1973, the Supreme Court made access to abortion a federally protected right. As I write in this week’s TIME cover story, that seemingly decisive victory 40 years ago kicked off a war that the pro-choice movement has been losing ever since. In many parts of the country today, obtaining an abortion is more difficult than at any point since the 1970s.

There are fewer doctors willing to perform the procedure and fewer abortion clinics open for business. Pro-choice activists have been outflanked by their prolife counterparts, who have successfully lobbied for state-based regulations that limit access. Scores of states now require women to undergo counseling, waiting periods or ultrasounds prior to obtaining abortions. Minors across the country must often get permission from their parents if they want to terminate pregnancies. And pro-life state legislators are passing laws that require clinics to comply with arcane requirements—such as a hallway having to be more than five feet wide— that make it difficult for them to stay open.

(Viewpoint: Pro-life and Feminism Aren’t Mutually Exclusive)

The pro-life cause has been winning the abortion war, in part, because it has pursued an organized and well-executed strategy. But public opinion is also increasingly on their side. Thanks to prenatal ultrasound and advanced neonatology, Americans now understand what a fetus looks like and that babies born as early as 24 weeks can now survive. Although three-quarters of Americans believe abortion should be legal in some or all cases, most support state laws regulating the procedure and fewer and fewer are identifying themselves as “pro-choice” in public opinion surveys.

The prochoice establishment has also been hampered by a generational divide within the cause. Young abortion rights activists today complain that the leaders of feminist organizations, who were in their 20s and 30s when Roe was decided, aren’t eager to pass the torch to a new generation whose activism is more nimble and Internet-based. But the most pressing challenge for prochoice activists may simply be that abortion is legal. In a dynamic democracy like America, defending the status quo is always harder than fighting to change it.

MORE: Read TIME’s cover story, “What Choice?” By Kate Pickert

205 comments
echo11
echo11

I am pro-life and I am proud.  I am the youth of America and my peers and I will NEVER give up the fight.  We are a new generation and we will continue in our war - equality for babies!  Protect the vulnerable and helpless!


The Pro Life March in Washington DC has grown bigger and bigger by the year.  In the next 50 years, my generation is going to end abortion.

wrathbrow
wrathbrow

Oh I got your point. I agree that most abortion are done to unwanted babies, that include rapes (small portion) and other incidents.

But your solution of don't do it (have sex) or use protection, while true really does not address the real world. If all it took was saying 'don't do it' then we could cure obesity, STD's, alcoholism, all additions, speeding, the list goes on.

I'm no fan of abortions and dislike anyone who uses it as birth control. My point is no one and life is not perfect. So reduce unwanted in the first place via on going eduction, programs. But that does not cover all of the real world and like it or not, abortions are effective in not bringing unwanted children in to the world. Doe they kill a child? I'd say it kills a potential child. Once the cells reach a stage where the brain is processing more that nerve like automatic responses then it becomes a human/child.

truthhurts
truthhurts

As a woman that has made the decision to abort child. After 13 years I still think of hIM and what life would have been like had my decision been different. I regret with all my heart my choice a choice I feel at this time should not have been mine. My choice should have been to USE BIRTH CONTROL... It's available at every gas station. I have never met a women that did not eventually regret this decision  Having an abortion does not take away the fact or the memory that u were pregnant with a child not a clump of cells. Sorry to step on the toes of those that have not lived through this decision, but until ur there u have no idea...

wrathbrow
wrathbrow

@truthhurts  

My sister had an abortion. Happened one night while drinking. While she was sad about it, she did not want to be tied to the guy or his child and has not regretted it. While I believe you when you say you have never met one who did not regret it, how many of those think they made the right choice, plus you have not met everyone who had an abortion.

Abortion is not a clear cut easy answer as some people would like to make it, on either side of the debate. My only concern is that some people want their reasoning and choices to be the law over other peoples reasoning and choices. 

peter204
peter204

Thank you so much for responding!  You offer a perspective that I have never heard before and I am very grateful for that.  I think your stance on this is so valuable because you were in that position, yet you have changed your viewpoint with time and experience.  I would greatly appreciate it if you shared your viewpoint on the role of men in making policy on this issue.  Do men have the right to tell women what to do with their bodies? While this question may seem obvious in most situations, it is not a black and white situation when it comes to abortion.  Also, how do you feel abortion policy should handle rape situations?  For me, that has always been a critical point when it comes to my viewpoint on abortion.  I don't understand how women who have been forced to become pregnant can then be forced to keep the child and deal with a lifetime of possible hatred for such child.  I would love to hear your opinion!

Joyrunr
Joyrunr

Dear Peter and all men willing to fight for these women ~ I would encourage you to fight with loving compassion for the woman that finds herself pregnant before she feels ready to be a mother.... I was there! I was that woman. Abortion seems like a good option, especially if no one has to know about what would be an 'untimely' pregnancy. But it comes with SCARS SO DEEP AND TRUE that it is ultimately the greatest error in judgment a woman can make... TO HER VERY CORE SHE WILL KNOW THIS. Eventually, if she is willing to think of the reality and TRUTH of it... She will have to face that she decided that killing the baby would be THE BEST FOR HER at that time & moment. Think Peter, THINK!

echo11
echo11

@Joyrunr I have never been able to forgive myself.  I have never been able to move on.  My peers and I will do everything it takes to end abortion.  This is a very very big youth movement.  The Pro Life March in Washington DC is getting bigger by the year and I am there every January.  I don't ever want a woman to go through the pain I went through.  Women who believe in abortion are in denial.  Abortion may be what's best for a woman, selfishly in the short term.  In the long term, if a woman can accept the feelings of loss and sadness she will realize her mistake... babies are helpless, the womb is supposed to be the safest place in the world for them.  I don't know how other women live happy lives knowing they slaughtered their own baby and that their baby, in some cases felt agonizing pain and fear.  I know I could never forgive myself, I cry over it daily.  If you have had an abortion... maybe you should sit with the feelings of loss and desperation and helplessness, then maybe you'll come out of the denial and realize the mistake you have made and that you have hurt your child in the worst way possible.  Babies are ever-loving, they love their mother... they are completely dependent on their caregiver.  They need some sort of protection.

Joyrunr
Joyrunr

Think with your heart and mind for the woman... all of the women that will have to face that horrible Truth. That it was not just a blob of tissues... It was HER VERY OWN CHILD that she terminated! OUCH!!!! GOD have mercy... HELP her deal with THAT grief and reality! It would be better for her and all of the women if that seemingly quick fix option was not on the table. I was there! It seemed like the best option at the time. I was there! NO ONE HAS TO KNOW!!!! But she, the mother, will always have to know.... eventually! Fight for those women, Pete! Fight for the ones that have time yet not to make that horribly bad decision and SCARS that they will have to live with. It is NOT a CHOICE WORTH MAKING! Especially for the heart of a woman whom has been given to be the heart of a mother! It is NOT A CHOICE WORTH MAKING especially for the heart of a man whom has been given to be the heart of a father! Fight for those men. Fight for those children that would be their siblings, their friends, their aunts and uncles and grandparents! Fight the fight, Peter! But THINK! And be on the right side BEFORE you take up the battle of our lifetime.

"The truth is the truth even if no one believes it, and a lie is a lie even if everyone believes it." ~

peter204
peter204

Personally, I am pro choice.  However, I understand that religion and belief in the life of a fetus provide reasoning behind the pro life stance.  One thing that I believe needs to be debated just as much as religious or fetal rights is the right of the woman.  If a fetus is also a part of a woman's body, does she not have a say in what happens to her body?  I am a student and have received an assignment requiring me to participate in online political deliberation.  I would greatly appreciate productive feedback and discussion on this critical topic.  How can we settle the debate on the rights of women when it comes to abortion?

Joyrunr
Joyrunr

Pro-lifers are for the life of the baby human that you prefer to call a fetus (which also just means baby human in the womb).

The death penalty is for the criminal who’s guilt was determined by the judicial system.

Abortion is the death of the innocent unborn baby (fetus) that was determined by the judicial system to be a penalty of procreation.

The prolifer may or may not support the criminal’s guilt being worthy of his death... but the innocent unborn baby’s death should never have been justified!

Mikal
Mikal

@ErihuTalon@Mikal You just don't listen! 21 weeks isn't a late term abortion..Some states wont say that until after 25 weeks.Have you had much luck finding a place that abort after 25 weeks? No, because it's illegal.Don't write again until you know what you're talking about and you got facts to back it up..In fact your facts are misguided, because you don't know how to use Criticalthinking LTA are illegal in the USA not my opinion the supreme court ruling of 2007 and there's no exception or another procedure that calls later abortions Just in the nick of time abortions

Joyrunr
Joyrunr

Wow! Lucy2 ~ It is easy in your healthy independent body to make such a statement as you have. I think that there are enough people of good will (prolifers or prochoicers alike) that are willing to step up to the demands of the dependent human beings that our society would produce that are likely to warrant abortion in your world.

I don't agree at all that the world would be a better place if we didn't have dependent human beings in our society. Hitler tried it that way. He exterminated all of what he thought were the 'undesirables', the old in nursing homes, the mentally handicapped, etc... They all just starting disappearing from the Germany society. Where does the line stop? That human selection experiment got carried away.

The prolife side is NOT WILLING TO GIVE THE POWER OF LIFE AND DEATH OF THE INNOCENT OVER to any other. Once those cells start dividing on their own with the NEW INDIVIDUAL'S Human DNA that will be born if not 'messed' with ( ABORTED)...They are alive and should have a RIGHT TO LIFE LIKE YOUR WERE AFFORDED.

lucy2
lucy2 like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

As both a medical professional and an atheist it is becoming incresingly difficult to understand the cruel and hypocritical view point of "pro-lifers".  You can not have it both ways. It is your right to believe that "god creates all life/a fetus is a soul"..... However- this buffet style attitude is revolting. It is against your god to abort a fetus, but perfectly acceptable to use hundreds and thousands of dollars keeping a terminal infant alive with intibation, respirators, exc.. (as was the case with baby k). As for me: "do no harm" is not the same as "alive". If you are so concerned with the "gift of life", may  I suggest housing a special needs and/or a foster child. Perhaps if you and all the other "advocates" out there spent a bit more time taking caring of all the discarded/unwanted "souls" already on this planet, the world would be a better place.

ShawnLa
ShawnLa

@lucy2 Funny how christians try to use their believe to justify their anti abortionist stance, when the bible states that life begins at birth.

Joyrunr
Joyrunr

@ShawnLa @lucy2  With all due respect... We are more than you would believe. As the Living Word of God would proof out:

'Thus says the Lord, your redeemer, who formed you from the womb: I am the Lord, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens; when I spead out the earth, who was with me?' Isaiah 44:24

'Thus says the Lord who made you, your help, who formed you from the womb:' Isaiah 44:2

'...Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I dedicated you,...' Jeremiah 1:5

'Truly you have formed my inmost being; you knit me in my mother's womb....My soul also you knew full well; nor was my frame unknown to you When I was made in secret...' Psalms 139:13,14,15

ShawnLa
ShawnLa

@Joyrunr@ShawnLa@lucy2

Luke 1:15 says he was filled with the Holy Spirit from the moment of birth.

Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God who separated me from my mothers womb, and called me by His grace... seems the calling was after the separation from the womb. . Or Luke 7:28; Among those who will be born of women there shall not be a greater prophet... (KJ) supports born. Birth is the important point of being a soul, conception is simply first step if not interrupted by normal miscarriage or chosen abortion. 

Psalms 139: 13-16 is not talking about a relationship with God while in the womb. It is a poetic verse talking about how God is all knowing. It reveals that God knows all and that God made us in the womb. But God also knew us in our father's loins and even before the world was created. This has nothing to do with abortion. We all know that God knows all and that God made all things. God knew which fetuses will be born (about 50% miscarriage or otherwise die naturally) You can not twist this to mean that God is saying it is wrong to have an abortion. He would have known the fetus didn't make it and was never born. 

Jeremiah 1:5 says God knew Jeremiah "BEFORE I formed thee". Indicates life begins BEFORE conception! Of course, this whole verse is just a figure of speech indicating that God had foreknowledge that Jeremiah would be a profit just like other passages show foreknowledge was has nothing to do with the abortion issue.

Ex 21:22-23 makes it quite clear that the death of fetus is not murder. When in the course of a brawl, a man knocks against a pregnant women so that she has a miscarriage but suffers no further harm (other than the death of the fetus), then the offender must pay whatever fine the woman's husband demands after assessment."

he Bible often identifies life with "breath", (Gen. 2:7) suggesting that life begins at birth, not conception. This has traditionally been the view of Jewish Biblical scholars. For example Ezekiel 37:1-14 suggests this which is consistent with Genesis 2:7. Adam did not become a "living soul" until the "breath of life" entered his nostrils AFTER his body was formed. Other examples are in Joshua 10:40, 1 Kings 15:29 and many others where "breath" is treated as a synonym for "life". In biblical terms it seems clear that life begins at birth, not conception.

 

 

Joyrunr
Joyrunr

@lucy2 Just to make you think it through some more. Would you really consider it ok to throw out, terminate or leave uncared for, because of the 'burden,' the individuals, children or adults alike, that were unfortunate enough to be damaged in an accident that left them suddenly dependent?

Joyrunr
Joyrunr

The argument about the baby being equal to an organ donoration program is not working. Apples to Oranges people.

We have to take into consideration that the baby IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE PARENTS WHO FORMED THEM! If I decide that I use don't want my born children anymore...whom I participated in forming... I would have to go through some reasonable steps to still ensure the good welfare of those children because they are still dependant human beings. UNBORN BABIES fall into that category unlike a kidney that I just don't need because my Uncle Mike is going to die without getting it. I could let Uncle Mike die if I want but a parent has a responsibility to support and sustain the dependant children that they produce or create through their CHOICE TO PROCREATE.

OK. I know that you are going to throw the rape exceptions at me like I am an idiot... Ok those children that are produced by rape will all be automatic wards of the state that their mother doesn't even have to see after the birth if she so desires it that way. Done.

ShawnLa
ShawnLa

@Joyrunr Except you cant seem to get it through your mind that they aren't babies, they are fetus's, no more babies than my sperm cells are.

Joyrunr
Joyrunr

@ShawnLa @Joyrunr 

Yes, they are... add a female's egg to your sperm and there you have it. A baby human!

Joyrunr
Joyrunr

@ShawnLa @Joyrunr 

Hi ShawnLa ~ I do know many women that mourned those children that they miscarried. It is surprising to me that you would be surprised by that. What different worlds we live in.

Peace ShawnLa

ShawnLa
ShawnLa

@Joyrunr @ShawnLa You have a clump of a couple cells that doesn't become a human being until many months later if it survives at all or attaches to the uterus. If they are babies then I guess every woman should mourn for the fertlized eggs that don't attach to the uterine wall, huh?

bmillercnm
bmillercnm like.author.displayName 1 Like

The discussion is couched in the wrong terms.  Abortion is not a choice, and life is not a right.  The crux of the matter is that one person's right to anything, including life, ends at the boundary of someone else's skin.  If my adult son needed a doner kidney or liver and I was a match, I would give him my organs, or the blood in my veins for that matter, because I love him beyond reason, but no court would require me to do so, because his right to life ends at my skin.  No one has a right to someone else's body, be that person a fetus, or an independent  viable human being.  If a fetus has a right to my uterus, than, by the same argument, my adult sons have a right to my kidneys, and that is not a place I believe any moral society wants to go.  

Joyrunr
Joyrunr like.author.displayName 1 Like

I've been 'following' these comments for about a week.

My comment in over-view is that some will not afford personhood, citizenship or human with rights to an unborn baby (those are the pro-choice). The other side (those on the Pro-life side) of the argument is that some do afford personhood, citizenship and the inalienable rights of a human to the unborn baby.

As best as the lump of cells that I am is able to think, determine and figure out, I would say that once the cells start dividing and growing on their own with a new human DNA that will become if it isn’t ‘messed with’, vacuumed, salted, punctured, dismembered with instruments is person with an independent and different blood type, heart beat, finger print, hair type, eye color, etc., (spirit and soul).

A person is a person not matter how small. Just because a few hand picked judges determined that they weren’t educated enough to call those unborn lumps of cells human 40 years ago doesn’t mean that it isn’t still true. A PERSON IS A PERSON NO MATTER HOW SMALL! and as Archbishop Fulton Sheen so beautifully stated, ‘The truth is the truth even if no one believes it, and a lie is a lie even if everyone believes it’.

Now let the insults commence by all of the people that disagree with me and the inconvenient truth that these babies should not be allowed by law to be terminated, killed, murdered, aborted by the mother, doctor or hand picked judges.

Hadrewsky
Hadrewsky like.author.displayName 1 Like

I personally would never condone an abortion with regards to my life... I find it disturbing.


But I find the idea of forcing others to accept my morality or worse my religious BS at gunpoint is a far greater crime... Subjugation of others at gunpoint to accept pro-life garbage by forcing women into giving birth is disgusting.


Nobody should be enforcing morality on anybody.

Joyrunr
Joyrunr

Sorry but you might have it backwards, Hadrewsky.

Nobody should be enforcing MORTALITY on anybody else.

ShawnLa
ShawnLa

@Joyrunr Yet so many people that are anti abortion are pro death penalty. Ironic isn't it.

Alareshu
Alareshu like.author.displayName 1 Like

God...these comments generate an awful feeling for me. Sometimes I hate humanity.

And uh, I'm pro-choice. Before y'all get all up in my space.

Joyrunr
Joyrunr like.author.displayName 1 Like

Sorry Alareshu... hang in there. There is hope! All lies eventually give way to the Truth. A lie will not stand the length of time. We humans will get it right eventually. There is always hope.

NatalieTschiedel
NatalieTschiedel like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

When you support civil rights, such as owning guns that can be used to kill any life, you should support a woman's right to choose what she can do with or for her body.

Joyrunr
Joyrunr like.author.displayName 1 Like

It isn't ok to shoot anyone that you want... It isn't ok to kill anyone that you want. It isn't ok to decide that the baby must die so that I don't have to see it, feel it, feed it, birth it, adopt it out. A baby should never be ok to kill except for in the most bizarre and extreme civilization and circumstances. Period.

Mikal
Mikal

You just entered the realms of idiocy.For those who still care about this topic, a ban does prevent someone from doing something, and that something is late-term-abortions.It isn't a flavor you nut! It's an abortion for a baby that's almost grown.I'm not going to continue to argue with you, you're obviously obsessed with being right, when you're wrong. I have other things to do

Hadrewsky
Hadrewsky like.author.displayName 1 Like

@Mikal

Mikal you are far too stupid to understand what an LTA means with regards to that ban... that ban was a rightist campaign that banned a single procedure and left the options open so long as they dont use that procedure... it was a half assed attempt by a Republican congress that failed to do anything meaningful.

Mikal
Mikal

I'm done dealing with idiots and nonsense so I'll post the facts
A late-term abortion often refers to an induced abortion procedure that occurs after the 20th week of gestation.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_termination_of_pregnancy  This is exactly what I've been saying so who's stupid? It doesn't permit LTA to be done nice and sweet, or it ban ONE type.LTA abortion it's banning any abortion does after third trimester.As I've been saying. So you're not arguing with me, you're arguing  with the facts

Mikal
Mikal

@ErihuTalon@Mikal @ErihuTalon@Mikal You just don't listen! 21 weeks isn't a late term abortion..Some states wont say that until after 25 weeks.Have you had much luck finding a place that abort after 25 weeks? No, because it's illegal.Don't write again until you know what you're talking about and you got facts to back it up..In fact your facts are misguided, because you don't know how to use Criticalthinking LTA are illegal in the USA not my opinion the supreme court ruling of 2007 and there's no exception or another procedure that calls later abortions Just in the nick of time abortions

Mikal
Mikal

@ErihuTalon @Mikal The law went into effect in 2007 the chart is based on 2004 statics, so you have to read the information before you criticize it

ErihuTalon
ErihuTalon like.author.displayName 1 Like

@Mikal Even your own chart shows you that there ARE abortions done after week 20.  And it says nothing about legality.  You are wrong.  ONE procedure was banned, and even then there is an exception TO that ban if the woman's life is in danger.

Mikal
Mikal

@Hadrewsky @Mikal 1st off, whether it makes the sun show up to morrow or not isn't the point. whether or not the republicans did anything meaningful afterwards isn't the point.Killing a baby during 6-9 months is illegal and considered a LTA..They didn't give an avenue top a kill a baby any other way, as you guys suggest.If so what and where is it performed? I asked this question before, and I get for answer ,is "I'm stupid"

Mikal_Dmon
Mikal_Dmon

@ErihuTalon@Mikal@Hadrewsky @ErihuTalon@Mikal@Hadrewsky You're not listening.It's like if I said werewolves come out at night, and you're complaining you saw one at 9:00pm That would be night.Just like  A late-term abortion often refers to an induced abortion procedure that occurs after the 20th week of gestation. However, the exact point when a pregnancy becomes late-term is not clearly defined. Some sources define an abortion after 16 weeks as "late http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_term_abortion  I called the center myself THEY SAID up to 24 wks isn't a late-term for Texas..25 and up would be! Ask them for a later term abortion at 26 wks and they'll deny it! BECAUSE late term Abortions are illegal

ErihuTalon
ErihuTalon like.author.displayName 1 Like

@Mikal @ErihuTalon @Hadrewsky Yes you are.  Show where ALL late term abortion procedures are banned.  I gave you a link that showed where there are still late term abortions performed, so it's your turn.  The ONLY ban has been for the so-called partial birth abortion procedure, and even it is still legal if the woman's life is in danger.

Mikal
Mikal

@ErihuTalon @Mikal @Hadrewsky I did my own research and called them.The state of Texas defines LTA after 24 weeks, in the wiki link I provided earlier, even they say some states vary what the consider late term abortion.So no I'm not wrong, Late term abortions are banned, however some states define that period differently. HAVE A NICE DAY!!

lookitup
lookitup like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

@Mikal Not arguing just suggesting you do some actual medical research.  A very tiny percentage of abortions are performed late-term and that is when something has gone very wrong with a wanted pregnancy.   Banning these is a knee-jerk reaction to a lack of facts.

Mikal
Mikal

@lookitup @Mikal You expect me to do/know medical research? What I know is you have a very flexible definition of late-term abortions.It's not performed because it's banned, and it's done not to protect the doctor or the mother, a late term-abortion was banned to protect the life of the baby.I don't have time to do this all day, and it' s not a lack of fact, I stand by everything I've said.

Mikal
Mikal

@ErihuTalon @Mikal @lookitup You're so full of it.That's like saying I'm not allowed to have a vehicle on the road, but they didn't ay anything motorized farm equipment. If the PROCEDURE Is banned, they can't come up with a new word to perform the procedure. But I'm done this, YOU show me LTA procedure that's still being performed in America, and you shut me up good.Until then, you're a liar , you argue WITHOUT FACTS and now the proof is on you OR SHUT UP!

ErihuTalon
ErihuTalon

@Mikal @ErihuTalon @lookitup They banned ONE procedure from being used, UNLESS the woman's life is in danger.  They did NOT ban all late-term abortions.  There most certainly are other procedures used for late-term abortions.  You are wrong.  

Mikal
Mikal

@ErihuTalon @Mikal @lookitup You don't know what you're talking about.I already posted the Supreme Court Ruling banning showing THEY DID ban this procedure.It's not banning the tool, or types of techniques, there is no other L-T-A practice.
It's abbreviated for LATE TERM ABORTION.Not later term abortion in the foot or late term abortion of the knee cap.Late term abortion is the a practice of aborting a kid @ full term. That entire concept was banned!I'm done now, look it up!

ErihuTalon
ErihuTalon like.author.displayName 1 Like

@Mikal @lookitup Wrong.  Late-term abortions are legal, with some restriction depending on gestational age.  What has been banned is ONE procedure only, and even then, if the woman's life is in danger, it is still legal.  A late-term abortion is any abortion performed after 20 weeks gestation, and only about 1.5% of all abortions are done then, anyway.

Mikal
Mikal

@lookitup@Mikallookitup Mikal What part of harassing don't you understand? I asked you 2 leave me alone.You're not making a point, you're just arguing.LTA are banned in America-FACT, Murder is also a crime in America, and people still do that too.Your point is it does still happen,but it's not suppose to, and you can be arrested.If you choice to do it, that's on you..None of this has to do with my original point, and this is been dragged too long.Find someone else to play with

lookitup
lookitup

@Mikal @lookitup They are possible and they do happen.  A procedure with the actual name of a Intact Dilation and Extraction was banned.  The procedure is used in very catastrophic circumstances and the *alternative* to it is not "magically healthy pregnancy/fetus."  It's dismemberment.  Gosh, folks must be so proud.

Mikal
Mikal

@lookitup @Mikal and I did, you are inserting your own topic.I don't care about percentages of LAT because they're no longer possible,and that wasn't my point.I listed in my last post, three factors for my comment.I love how you keep trying to insult me.Cute!