Do Teachers Really Discriminate Against Boys?

A study on gender disparities in elementary-school performance found that boys received lower grades than girls, even when their test scores were equal to or higher than the girls’

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Worries about the declining academic performance of boys, a topic of increasing alarm this past decade, have intensified recently. It seems that boys are being judged both unduly harshly and leniently at school. A new study on gender disparities in elementary-school performance — the first study to examine both objective and subjective performance — found that boys were given lower grades than girls, even in cases (such as math and science) where their test scores were either equal to or higher than the girls’ test scores.

It seems like out-and-out discrimination, except there is an interesting wrinkle: teachers didn’t downgrade boys who had identical test scores to girls if they seemed to share the girls’ positive attitude toward learning. In fact, the opposite seemed to occur: the well-socialized boys received a small grade “bonus” for their good behavior relative to other boys, suggesting that teachers may be overcompensating when they encounter boys whose behavior exceeds expectations. In other words, boys who match girls on both test scores and behavior get better grades than girls do, but boys who don’t are graded more harshly. Which means that the issue of what to do with underperforming boys just got a lot more complicated.

(MORE: Ew, Boys: The Brewing Battle over Same-Sex Education)

We’ve known for a long time that boys, on average, struggle with school more than girls do. Learning disabilities and behavioral problems are more prevalent among boys, and high school and college graduation rates are lower. Boys also receive two-thirds of failing grades and are more likely to find school boring or frustrating.

What’s new is the finding that these gender disparities start so early and appear linked not only to gaps in relatively objective measures like test scores but also to teachers’ assessments of their own students. But since much of the misalignment between test scores and grades (or one might say between reality and perception) is accounted for by differences in social competency, what can we do about it? Some educators have responded by championing single-sex schools and other special supports for struggling boys. The decline of recess and physical education has been harmful to all kids but perhaps more so for rambunctious boys than eager-to-please girls.

(MORE: Do Mothers Hamper Their Daughters in Math?)

But before we start siphoning off boys from mainstream schools or putting trampolines in every classroom, it’s worth noting that gender disparity is only one lens through which we can understand academic performance, and an imperfect one. Susan Cain, author of Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can’t Stop Talking, describes how the current vogue for collaborative learning and group projects may leave introverts and solitary thinkers behind. These types of learners are often labeled uncooperative or academically deficient because their learning style doesn’t conform to our current conception of a productive work output. Perhaps instead of dividing classes by sex we should consider dividing by learning style, except that in a society that privileges extroversion, one can only imagine how parents might respond to the suggestion that their child is introverted and shy.

(MORE: Susan Cain: Don’t Call Introverted Children Shy)

While sex differences are real, and likely honed by cultural training as much as evolution, it’s also the case that differences within sexes are far more significant than the differences across genders. To understand why this is so, we can take the example of sex differences in height. The average American adult male is 5 ft. 9 in. while the average American adult female is 5 ft. 4 in. But if we based all height-related decisions (like sink heights in public bathrooms) on this disparity, we would miss a key point: the range of possible heights for an individual man or woman might go from less than 5 ft. to nearly 7 ft. In other words, there’s far more variation within each sex than between the sexes.

Similarly with children, if teachers expect boys to behave worse than girls, because on average they do so, they may miss girls’ behavior problems entirely or treat well-behaving boys as anomalous, which as the study showed can distort expectations and support for all children. The focus on sex differences also obscures other important variables related to learning — such as age, physical maturity, mental-health issues and home environments, to name just a few. Educating children is a complex task, and while we should be concerned about our boys, we also can’t forget to look at the bigger picture. After all, that’s what learning is all about.

 

52 comments
DuckworthAnn
DuckworthAnn

I know teachers are this way.  This is a problem boys have to deal with regarding a sense of freedom of expression by girls and yes, adult girls that allows more subtle abuses of boys using a long held protection by society for such treatment of boys.  While this is a problem, there is another problem that is more detrimental to Male achievement in school.  


This is the differential, more aggressive treatment of Male children as early as one year of age.  The long belief boys should be strong creates more firm treatment along with more distance for fear of coddling.  This aggressive treatment increases as the child grows.  It is still considered taboo to give kind, stable, verbal interaction or other mental/emotional/social supports for fear of coddling.  This creates higher average stress (higher layers of mental frictions that take up real mental energy); higher muscle tension; and more social/emotional distance.  This creates more activity for stress relief; poor handwriting/motivation to write (muscle tension creates pressure on grip/pressure on pencil); lags in mental/emotional/social/verbal growth; and lower social vocabulary higher average stress (reading is an abstract skill requiring more mental energy to decode, visualize, organize and learn new words in print using one's social vocabulary).  The lower the socioeconomic bracket and time in that bracket the more amplified the allowed catharsis of stress upon Male children and more accepted treatment designed to make boys tough.


While this is being taught to boys in the information age, girls are given much more kind, stable, verbal interaction and other mental/emotional/social/verbal supports from infancy and is continued through adulthood by parents, teachers, peers, etc.  Even in lower socioeconomic brackets, this much better treatment remains and so the differential treatment is elevated for those groups.  Guess you could not see the how mere negative teacher grading could create smaller deficiencies in Middle class Male students and increasingly much larger deficiencies in lower socioeconomic areas.  


To understand how average stress affects thinking, learning, reflection time, motivation to learn (mental reward received for mental work expended), and mental/emotional health, you must redefine our average stress as layers of mental work each one of us are dealing with that take up real mental energy, leaving less mental energy to think, learn, and grow mentally and emotionally.  By redefining average stress as layers of real mental work taking away mental energy, we can then see more clearly how differential treatment by group will create larger differences in academic growth by gender  and other group treatment.  Theory will go to all on request.

Zuflus
Zuflus

The schools are way to fixated to learn students with theory, when many boys have a hard time learning that way. The way I experience all years of school was to be put under the rug since I was and have never been able to learn the theoretic way. There is many extremely talented and creative young boys out there. But as I, they do not get to expand that talent because they're being forced behind a desk reading books and writing poems.


with my lack of theoretical skills and talent to do things practical sent me to get shunned and always barely pass or fail after 3-4 weeks with long nights studying for each tests, no matter how hard I tried I always got the short end of the stick. I despise cheating therefore I have not cheated once in my hole school life. While watching many other classmates both boys and girls cheat and get the long end of the stick. Yet I where one of those "trouble students" that rarely was able to do the homework in time and ace the tests. When we suddenly got to do some practic work, then it was my time to shine. It was short but oh so good x) But that didn't make a difference since all the theory was driving over your good practic work with a bulldozer, and you where back to square one.


Not always had teachers I didn't get along with, but I've had teachers I've liked and helped me being able to get through school, big thanks to them.

Hope this problems will be taken serious soon, and I do know someone that is going through this crap now and is so tired with the short end of the stick that he's ready to give up. So I ended up googling stuff and found this.

 



JoseMiguelTenreiro
JoseMiguelTenreiro

A "study"??!! 

This should read "a raid". And perpetrators should be brought to justice for this is nothing short of a fraud.

DuckworthAnn
DuckworthAnn

While this is a problem that can be recorded, there are also the many verbals and lack of support that usually accompany such grading.  Society though, under the idea that boys will be boys, allow more both more aggressive treatment toward boys and along with that, as is now seen, also outright discrimination in grading.  The book, "Psychology of Sex Differences" recorded research showing how when little girls dropped an item, they would be given a subtle reprimand.  However, when the little boy would drop an identical item, they would be chastised much more severely, even using physical restraint to enforce that reprimand.  Note this type of treatment is allowed by society under the heading of boys should be strong, but this also allows much catharsis of stress upon boys from an early age onward.  This is creating the higher muscle tension that hurts handwriting; more activity for stress relief; more outside attention to sports and games for love and honor; and lags in maturity from an early age created by more distrust and more social/emotional distance.  

The girls are receiving not just better grades but much more kind, stable, verbal interaction and other sustained and more continual mental/emotional/social/verbal support and care through adulthood.  This is creating a wonderful road to success for girls today.  If this is not corrected for equal treatment, boys, later men, will begin to fall so far behind and be treated so much more cruelly by society, they may take back all they have lost from society in the future to the detriment of everyone.

PaigeRoberts
PaigeRoberts

You do not seem to be "getting it" the issue is not outright discrimination, but that we are making an environment in which boys do very poorly. The study never did say  "well-socialized boys". The fact that you took it that way, is pointing to one of the problems. The study pointed out that boys with more feminine personality traits, did better that boys who are more male in nature. The gape in academic achievement between the sexes is widening. All while men and woman are about the same in talent. Yes we have a real problem and it needs to be addressed. The last thing we need is for you do be an apologist for a failed system

NeilKeicher
NeilKeicher

 "Except there is an interesting wrinkle: teachers didn’t downgrade boys who had identical test scores to girls if they seemed to share the girls’ positive attitude toward learning."

 So, it's perfectly acceptable for female teachers to discriminate against most boys because they graded some fairly?  A teacher's personal opinion of a student should in no way influence how she grades a test.  She may despise the student, but if that student is really smart, then he absolutely deserves an A.

This is discrimination, and it is inexcusable.

peter204
peter204

I agree with many of the points that have been made so far in the preceding comments.  First off, it does seem like boys are treated differently due to their excess of physical energy.  While this has been discussed as a negative aspect, I believe it should be hones into a positive one and utilized as a tool for mental energy.  Why can't boys use their physical capabilities to push themselves harder in the classroom?  I also don't think their physicality should be an excuse; they have no reason not to work just as hard as girls in the classroom.  So what can policy do about these new trends?  Do we return to more recess time and stop focusing on standardized testing?   

km124
km124

Why don't we just expect more of our boys? I work in preschools over 15 years and was routinely told by parents of boys "Oh, he's such a boy" to explain away unacceptable behavior. I have raised three boys and three girls- the younger son and oldest daughter were the "rambunctious" ones, yet I disciplined them and expected appropriate behavior in any given situation: church, school, going out to dinner, etc. The result? No medications, no excuses, and now I enjoy my six healthy, happy, well-adjusted successful adults. I have been to many other countries and am surprised how the boys and girls behave in cultures that expect civilized behavior. America needs to stop expecting less of their sons.

RobGarciaSJ
RobGarciaSJ

Height and personality differences (unless extreme) cannot affect learning in the same way that inherent biological and physiological differences in brain structure, development and maturity does. Teachers are not discriminating against our boys on purpose but they are mistreating them because they are not trained in gender specific pedagogy and learning methodologies.  I have for years observed gender specific classrooms and teachers acknowledge and leverage gender differences to teach young children the same material in different ways and the effectiveness is clear (as well as fun and engaging for each gender).  It is the gender specific environment that breaks down the barriers to learning and gender stereotypes not the other way around.  In gender specific classrooms boys can explore arts and drama and still be boys, while girls can be stars in math and science not just for the grade. 

7christian
7christian

In reference to little boys & little girls: First priority of a school hiring a teacher, should be to investigate the 'heart & soul' of a prospective teacher! This can be done in the interviewing process. Loving the hearts & minds of children, coupled with the love of teaching, should be the first priority of a teacher! This brings a positive spirit of learning into the classroom, where 'all' children learn & thrive! Instead of having learned great things & taking the positive spirit of the teacher with them, these children take the negative impression of the bad teacher with them, that's been in the classroom for their own selfish reasons; whether it was for power, pay, summers off, their own agenda, or whatever! That's heart breaking to the children involved & to anyone with a loving heart that hears of it!!!

SdfasdfSdfsdfs
SdfasdfSdfsdfs

Recuerden estos textos son metodos de comprobacion.

Hipótesis de trabajo Area Criminalistica para el Proyecto Genocidio de Investigacion:


Son los desarrollos del CERN, en mecánica quántica y de interacción de fuerzas y campos (interacciones electrodinámicas), (Teorías de Einstein Bor), Investigaciones para obtener informaciones de otros países en base al cambio de Spin en las partículas sub atómicas y átomos en la atmósfera.

Los algorítmos que se usan en el proyecto genocidio OERH, son Cálculos estadísticos de campos bioeléctricos humanos y amplificaciones de campos de nano computadoras en las neuronas de los humanos que captan y transmiten datos a satélites, estos datos son demodulados por algoritmos que expliquen como se comportan las moléculas, átomos, partículas sub atómicas en la atmósfera y el espacio, para obtener información sobre eventos actuales y pasados, desde el punto de vista de las teoría de la relatividad y la mecánica quántica, podría un humano haber hablado o realizado una actividad en el pasado presente y con sensores captar los cambios en partículas y átomos que permitan desencriptar o remodular los datos en bases a estos cambios quánticos.
Información de los millones de cambios en el Spin de átomos y partículas en base a fuerzas, campos y sensores?.

Para predecir eventos millones de años en el futuro.



Hipótesis de trabajo Area Criminalistica para el Proyecto Genocidio de Investigacion:

Mire parte del Proyecto:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7rdd1w6dkcSY3M3VW5PcWtTeGs/edit?usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7rdd1w6dkcSbVlLcXNIeHN6Mk0/edit?usp=sharing

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7rdd1w6dkcSZFoyNlJ5ZVZsWjQ/edit?usp=sharing



 

SarahConfran
SarahConfran

Most k-12 teachers are also female, when a girl acts out the teacher may think back to a time when she had acted similarly and be more understanding but may not understand why Billy can't sit still.

samarapostuma
samarapostuma

"The decline of recess and physical education has been harmful to all kids but perhaps more so for rambunctious boys than eager-to-please girls."

In addition to the decline, in some schools recess and physical education is taken away for misbehavior and used as discipline {or punishment} which starts in my opinion a spiral of misbehavior for the "rambunctious" child who was unable to get excess energy out in an effective way and instead then misbehaves more during classroom time.

I find the entire conversation interesting. 

JamesAnderson1
JamesAnderson1

Maybe girls are simply smarter? Then again given the poor performance (is this new) how do you explain that men dominate both business and politics or that fields traditionally dominated by women (interior design, fashion, hair, counseling) often have men in senior leadership positions?  Why for example are gay men the arbitrators of women's fashion?

 Rather then worrying about boys scoring a little lower lets address the issue of why when women are clearly better qualified aren't they getting into positions of power as a result? 

NamecNassianer
NamecNassianer

"teachers didn’t downgrade boys who had identical test scores to girls if they seemed to share the girls’ positive attitude towards learning. In fact, the opposite seemed to occur: the well-socialized boys received a small grade ‘bonus’ for their good behavior relative to other boys"

Do you actually understand what you are saying?  That is: boys whose behaviors ("positive attitude") were not like girls were downrated, and boys whose behaviors were like girls received a bonus? IE: boys should act like girls in order to be well-perceived.

I, for one, am glad when boys act like boys.  To expect boys to act like girls is bias in the greatest extreme. 



LeeAllison
LeeAllison

I am Art teacher assistant teach children group between 6 to 16 . from my point of view. new teachers need to study child psychology if they want to teach young children. boys are constructive . they need time to finish their assignment and girls are " I'll get it" but don't seem follow the roles. when boys focus on their project, they don't want stop.

upthewazzu
upthewazzu

I can't say for sure if all teachers hate boys, but I can with 100% confidence say that my 4th grade teacher, Mrs Tanner, hated boys with a passion. She did everything in her power to make our lives miserable for that entire year.

MKE.Dave
MKE.Dave

Very interesting article. I think the takeaway is not to make drastic changes to try to fix the problem (though I think increased recess and PE is worthwhile for more than just rambunctious boys) but rather to increase awareness of the phenomenon among both parents and students. Why try to make everything fair in a world where nothing is? Educate students that fairness should not be assumed or expected and that education is more than numbers and grades.

Great points about introverts, though. I'm curious how my firstborn is going to do in our educational system, being bright but very introverted.

DuckworthAnn
DuckworthAnn

@TheWiseSerpent I see this also.  We need to help boys in multiple ways.  We need to "begin providing more ease, more care, along with more kind, stable, mental/emotional/social support that creates more stability and ease of learning.  The present more aggressive styles of early childhood raising are creating higher average stress, higher muscle tension, and much social/emotional distance and distrust that is creating more activity, lags in mental/emotional/social growth; more distance; and much less social communication with adults and others.  I  feel this will create more problems for communication.  I feel the wrinkle of freedom of expression by women teachers to give more verbal, silent abuse, and more physical treatment allowed by society is doing litle good to create an improved trust of women.  I feel the false genetics model along with the more permanent stagnation of mental/emotional growth from this treatment along with the false illusion of genetic superiority of women and the freedom of expression society allows, will create many problems for society in the future as Males begin to fall behind collectively from this differential treatment.  I feel they begin equal but the aggressiveness given the boys along with the much more freedom of verbal, silent, and physical harm that is allowed along with false societal induced feelings of inferiority are things that need to addressed to correct this problem.

anonski
anonski

@TheWiseSerpent Good job turning this around and making it the boys fault because of "patriarchy". Is it so hard to believe that some women can be sexist against males?

ikaberg08
ikaberg08

yes of course its the individual boys fault for not being able to adjust to the school system when its a clear problem across the board with young boys. When I was a child I was hated by most of my teachers. Not because I was a rotten kid or not emotionally aware. It's because I was fidgety all the time. Lots of energy, got picked on on a daily basis and was told not to hit back AND not to be a tatle tale. I was left with limited to no options in the school system and thus learned to hate the school system as a whole. There were times in middle school once all the damage was done by the teachers and fellow students I wish I could have shot up a school or stepped in front of a truck. It was the love of my mother that kept me going. I was taught to respect women growing up and all I wanted to do was please the teachers but because of difficulties with other students and not being able to sit still as well as not clearly being told what was wanted of me other than "Sit still and shut up" I was labelled a trouble student. Quite frankly the way I was treated by my female teachers growing up helped create a chip on my shoulder towards women and feminism. Once I got to college however I enjoyed my time much more but in the elementary school system I feel the problem lies in teachers more wanting an easy day not dealing with the hyperness some kids can bring rather than wanting to actually help ALL of their students learn.

tpmarkowski
tpmarkowski

@km124 What about the less fortunate with ignorant parents? What about the kids who were born in an unhealthy environment where they are seen as a nuisance more than as a precious child? What about the neglected? What about the Kids who don't have access to extra curriculars because their parents are either a)too lazy or b) too poor or more likely than not both? And those are just social circumstances. What about taking into consideration the personality types of children based on their physiological needs? What about the kids with boundless energy and endless creativity? Your kids may have been easier to deal with because of their genetics. Human personality is linked to genetics just as much as it is to to the environment they grow up in. I agree with expecting more but lets expect more from both sides, and instead of just brushing off the responsibility of the community in bringing up youth. Sorry for the long reply but as a Kid who was singled out his entire life and is only now discovering how my mind and body works is excruciatingly nerving, especially since I was also the Kid willing to try anything and had always been intelligent. The disparity is a lack of the willingness to accept the psychology of Kids particularly male children by schools and educational systems. It is unfortunate given that most children with learning disabilities and issues with hyperactivity tend to have a higher natural IQ and thirst for knowledge and are deprived of achieving their potential because the system failed them and instead of having the opportunity to answer a simple question are looked over for the teachers favourite. These things stick and have a lasting effect that you will never quite understand, at least on an emotional level anyways.

egaode
egaode

@samarapostuma I think there should be a lot more physical activity in schools across the board. Why does English have to be taught in a desk? Or Science? Or geography? Get the kids the heck outside and let them learn while moving. Sadly, with all the paranoia now it's almost impossible to get past the red tape needed that would allow kids to be out of the classroom.

shorelineliz
shorelineliz

@NamecNassianer : Me too. I have always loved rambunctious little boys and now they put them all on Ridylin or some other "zone them out drug" so they can "handle" them. I once had a little 4 year old boy in the daycare I worked in. Boy was he active! And Smart! that kid would answer every question ahead of the other children and was berated by the teacher who was the laziest woman ever! She just wanted conformity and often she berated him for answering these questions when he got everyone right! May be little boys are bored. Who wouldn't be? The curriculum sucks! I was bored! But then again I was the little girl who always raised my hand because I knew the answer before the class. Maybe we just have dull teachers or lazy teachers how about that? I have always believed that if a kid isn't learning it is the teachers fault who won't find a way to motivate them and I have always found that the key to unlocking learning in any child is to understand them. But all too often the teacher just wants perfect little  well behaved sheeples  so her life can go smoothly. This is darn selfish! My Dad told me of a 7th grade teacher he had who stayed after school for a whole semester to help him individually to catch up because he was failing that grade. Are there any teachers left who will do this without extra pay? I doubt it! I never found one teacher in the entire academic career of my children this dedicated. They are dealing with class sizes of 30 kids or more. Of course kids fall through the crack but to single out boys? Forget this study! It's bias to the hilt!

DeweySayenoff
DeweySayenoff

@NamecNassianer No, that's not what it said, and the rest of the article made that clear.  It's not behavior.  It's ATTITUDE, which is often expressed in behavior.  A positive attitude toward learning is a very SPECIFIC behavior that is NOT gender specific.  Being able to socialize without necessarily acting BADLY is also NOT gender specific.

It's not that the writer didn't understand what they were saying.  It's that YOU didn't understand what the writer was saying.

shorelineliz
shorelineliz

@LeeAllison : You are properly motivating these kids. I never had trouble teaching boys anything. They always responded to my questions about them. How are you today? How are you feeling? What shall we learn? What are you interested in? Even basic academics can be interesting if the teacher isn't dull. However, many are. You are probably the exception. I did not have very many good teachers in my academic career and neither did my kids. They seemed more interested in "feminism" issues than teaching my children. In my view the public school system is disproportionately filled with women. Perhaps boys need a male role model in the classroom, eh? Hire more MALE teachers and see if the study has different outcomes. I bet it will. This study is bias to the hilt. It is all from a female teacher perspective because they dominate elementary education. The word "subjective" should be highlighted in this article. 

shorelineliz
shorelineliz

@upthewazzu : Yup. you hit the nail on the head. My son was inundated with merlot swilling porn watching hyper feminist women who berated him. You can only imagine what I had to say to these crazy sex education women! They never stopped talking to the class about sex education. Darn perverts if you ask me and they hated little boys as they preferred girls. But nobody is supposed to talk about these arrogant feminist type of women as teachers are we? Nope. This study is disgustingly bias against little boys because the feminist movement is of the same opinion. 

NamecNassianer
NamecNassianer

@upthewazzu 

Imagine eight years in a Catholic parochial school in which ALL teachers were nuns, and the only "good" boy is one who said he wanted to be a priest.

Belisarius86
Belisarius86

@MKE.Dave 

When boys lose out, we need to "increase awareness" but make no other changes.

When girls lose out, they get special scholarships and outreach programs and jobs set aside for them.

NamecNassianer
NamecNassianer

@MKE.Dave 

A nun actually told me that first-born sons were like waffles: the first one was a throw-away.


arlene
arlene

@ikaberg08 I totally agree with you.  My son is going through this right now with a teacher in Grade 2 - I know he is fidgety and hyper but she refusing to find the positive in him and I am afraid his school work will suffer because of her and make him think he is bad when he is clearly not -he is a smart kid and we have always gotten good reports about him in the past.  I really believe that we need to bring back the male teachers who understand more - more and more female teachers came into the classroom expecting perfect behaviour from the boys and be like the girls so I am very frustrated in the school system right now.

egaode
egaode

@ikaberg08 I don't agree with the above comment from TheWiseSerpent at all, but also I really believe that EVERY child has at least one teacher horror story. I've had female teachers be absolutely terrible to me and worse to my sister (who was also very fidgity going through school). And I've had a couple of male teachers who were absolutely terrible (one who teased me in phys ed in front of my peers all the time because I was not very athletic and would try to make me do tasks he knew I couldn't). Across the board, though, there are simply more women in the teaching profession than men. I don't like comments like "I have a chip on my shoulder against women", making it seem as though all women are likely to terrorize young children. Rather, I think you have a chip on your against teachers, and a system that makes it almost impossible for kids to be normal kids.

INTJ
INTJ

@ikaberg08   You hit the nail on the head! Of course a "feminist" will say it is the entire universe of boys at fault. My son has to take a womens studies course next semester, I hope he can endure the discrimination and hatred, I hope my love for him helps him as your mom's love did for you.

INTJ
INTJ

@shorelineliz @NamecNassianer  Out of the 12 elementary, 18 middleschool, and 36 highschool teachers our kids had over the past several years, I can count on one hand those that would "go the extra mile". The problem may not be with boys or girls or even test scores. The problem may be with teachers unions, and a schools inability to get rid of the losers!

shorelineliz
shorelineliz

@DeweySayenoff @NamecNassianer : Can someone please explain the definition of "acting Badly?" I can only describe a wonderful little boy in my daycare who did not "conform" to all the other children. He was the brightest little boy I had ever met. He raised his hand all the time because he knew the answer to the question way ahead of the others. He was told to stop "disrupting" the class. When it came time for "nap time" he was not tired. But, the 'teacher" berated him for not being sleepy. He was put down over and over to my objection. And this kid was only 4 years old. Perhaps the problem is not with little boys but with teachers, eh? Not everybody learns at the same rate and frankly I found I preferred this smart little boy to any child in the classroom. He was alert, sharp and inquisitive. But, he had one problem the teacher wouldn't stop complaining about and that was energy and drive. She was however, in my estimation, the laziest woman on the planet who wanted absolute conformity so she would have less work. 

NamecNassianer
NamecNassianer

@DeweySayenoff @NamecNassianer 

I don't think you understand what I said.

My point was that boys' behavior is different than girls' behavior.  Boys are being judged unfavorably when they are acting like....well, boys.  




shorelineliz
shorelineliz

@NamecNassianer @upthewazzu : I went to parochial school where all the teachers were women and they hated little boys. Hated them! You are right. In public school in the elementary years I never saw one male teacher among my three children's teachers. All women. Bitchy unhappy women. Nagging women. The public school system wreaks this way. High school was a little bit better for them. College was even better. My boys benefitted from me teaching them at home. And from my nurturing and caring for their individual styles. the public school system needs a complete overhaul starting with adding as many male teachers as female. I bet the outcome of this study would be different if it wasn't so bias and stacked against males by the reports of a predominant female teaching staff. 

shorelineliz
shorelineliz

@Belisarius86 @MKE.Dave : I bet that nun was as mean as the nuns I went to parochial school with. We had one nun we named Sister Battle Axe. I found just as many mean and haughty female teachers who were not nuns among the elementary teachers of my three children. Forget about these merlot swilling porn watching sex education weirdos in middle school. 

MKE.Dave
MKE.Dave

@Belisarius86  I'm not saying girls should get special scholarships and outreach programs. I'm saying that life's unfair and people are biased. The sooner my kids understand that and understand what they need to do to excel in spite of that, the better off they'll be. They need to know that no matter how fair and unbiased they are to people below them on the totem pole (and I will do my absolute best to ensure they are as fair and unbiased as possible), there will be people above them who are biased either for or against them.

I will grant you that I spoke too dismissively about changes that need to be made. The point I was trying to convey (and did so poorly) was that we shouldn't make drastic changes based on speculation. Usually, when we make drastic changes, we find we've changed things quite drastically, but not always how we expected to :) I'm all for constantly trying to correct our shortcomings, I'm just also aware of our tendency to overcorrect.

km124
km124

@NamecNassianer @DeweySayenoff Not so fast! I have dealt with many a rambunctious girl as I have boys. But when it's the girls, they are disciplined harshly, not so with the boys-just take a look at your comment. Society is fluid-the teachers coming in now were raised alongside boys who were not excused for their behavior.Just look through this thread and the " men" discussing the controlling, hateful female teachers. Really? Ever dawn on them to try to behave? After all, the majority of boys I've dealt with have been quite capable of going through the schooldays acting in respectful, acceptable ways. Seems there are quite a few parents out there who believed in yes, some differences, but basically our kids were so much mor then their gender. Those are , for the most part , the secure adults you meet.@NamecNassianer @DeweySayenoff @NamecNassianer @DeweySayenoff

egaode
egaode

@shorelineliz @MKE.Dave @Belisarius86 Would probably be a lot easier if men were actually interested in early childhood education. Look at the ratio of men and women in those programs. There just aren't enough men signing up for the job.

INTJ
INTJ

@Fran2011 @shorelineliz @MKE.Dave @Belisarius86 

I think the sooner society returns to valuing the uniqueness of both sexes the better. We have failed, perhaps 2 whole generations of children, by destroying the traditional family and treating dads as worthless.

shorelineliz
shorelineliz

@MKE.Dave @Belisarius86 : the sooner we stop hiring all female teachers in elementary school the better off these kids will be. the sooner we start nurturing little boys for the unique little human beings they are the better off they will be. This study is not honest. Little boys are simply "labeled" as "behavioral problems" from the earliest years of their education. If you want to call it that. Every little boy is special and unique. They should be treated that way. I have always found little boys to love learning. If you take the time with them. Some have been a handful. But, I noticed those ones had early leadership qualities. Something that seemed to threaten insecure female teachers who loved absolute power and control. Perhaps the study simply is reflective of the teacher's bias toward little boys who want to lead instead of follow? Hmmmm.....may have hit a nail on the head there, eh?