Boy Scouts of America Has A Lot To Learn From the Girl Scouts

The Girl Scouts explicitly reject discrimination, while the Boy Scouts encourage bigotry and intellectual passivity

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After months of delay, Boys Scouts of America (BSA) is finally voting today to overturn its ban on “openly gay” scouts (though not scout leaders—those are still verboten.) The BSA has defended its discriminatory policy on the grounds that homosexuality is incompatible with the Scout Law, especially with the values expressed in its commitment to ‘morally straight’ and ‘clean’ living. But instead of twisting themselves into moral knots that encourage bigotry, the Boy Scouts would have saved themselves a lot of angst and controversy (and also done better by American boys) if they were more like…the Girl Scouts.

(MORE: The Boy Scouts Latest P.R. Move is a Misfire)

In their statement of purpose called “What we stand for,” the Girl Scouts explicitly reject discrimination of any kind and consider sexual orientation, “a private matter for girls and their families to address.” Noting their affirmation of freedom of religion, a founding principle of American life, the Girl Scouts “do not attempt to dictate the form or style of a member’s worship” and urge “flexibility” in reciting the Girl Scout Promise. (They are encouraged to substitute the word “God” for something that’s more in line with their own spiritual practice.) It’s an arresting contrast to the Boy Scouts of America, who in addition to excluding gays also refuse to hire non-believers. While the BSA employment application states unequivocally that atheists, agnostics and “known or avowed homosexuals” are in all cases barred from becoming Scout leaders, convicted criminals can rest easy that their record “is not an automatic bar to employment.”

But there’s more than discrimination at stake. The BSA’s clannish practices may harm heterosexual boys too. That’s because a body of research suggests that excluding people from groups who are different impairs creative problem-solving and critical thinking. The studies, ranging from financial trading and management practices to jury deliberations, have confirmed what most of us know intuitively: our decision-making is enhanced by a wide variety of perspectives, even from those with whom we may disagree.

Some will argue – and many have – that the Boy Scouts aren’t practicing discrimination, merely asserting, as a private institution, constitutionally protected values that have been upheld by the supreme court. And that’s correct, as far as it goes.

(MORE: Gay Boy Scouts Employee: “I Can’t Live A Lie Any Longer”)

The problem is that these values reflect a constricted vision of moral development based on outdated stereotypes of masculinity that can keep young men from reaching their full potential as human beings, while the values of the Girl Scouts enhance moral and intellectual development. According to an article in the Atlantic, the two organizations started with similar aims but quickly diverged as the Boy Scouts affiliated with church sponsors and other elite power structures while the Girl Scouts went their own way. Girl Scouts started racially desegregating their troops back in the 1950’s (Martin Luther King Jr. was a vocal fan) and have long espoused a culture of inclusion, dialogue, and strongly independent thinking. In 2011, Kathleen E. Denny, a sociologist at the University of Maryland, analyzed the Boy Scout and Girl Scout handbooks and concluded:

 The girls’ handbook conveys messages about approaching activities with autonomous and critical thinking, whereas the boys’ handbook facilitates intellectual passivity through a reliance on organizational scripts. Taken together, girls’ messages promote an “up-to-date traditional woman” consistent with the Girl Scouts’ organizational roots; boys’ messages promote an assertive heteronormative masculinity that is offset by facilitating boys’ intellectual passivity.

Contemporary life demands an increasingly elastic and collaborative mind, and the unfortunate truth is that American women, generally speaking, are finding it easier to adapt to a country of diverse people and ideas. One study found that female politicians make more effective legislators because they are better collaborators and less prone to show-boating (or going off on an Appalachian trail of personal exploration). They sponsor and co-sponsor more bills (an average of 26 more per congressional session) and they also bring more money to their districts compared to their male counterparts. (And we’re talking “real money” here: an average of $50 million dollars more per legislator.) The reason seems to be that women politicians are more skilled at the “deal-making” activities that result in legislative action.

Nearly all the essential academic skills identified by the Partnership for 21st Century Learning, such as creativity and innovation, problem-solving, communication and collaboration and civic literacy, are areas in which girls arguably have an advantage. However, there is no reason boys can’t excel in them too.

(MORE: Do Teachers Really Discriminate Against Boys?)

Many indicators are telling us that we have to do a better job of helping young men navigate early adulthood. The Boy Scouts have an admirable tradition of teaching boys to become men. But as men and women work, go to war, and raise families interchangeably, it no longer makes sense to idealize a stereotypic brand of masculinity, one that is ‘physically strong,’ and ‘clean’… whatever that means. The morally “straight” thing to do seems obvious: help all boys and girls become their better selves.

PHOTOS: Life with the Boy Scouts in an Era of Change


We as a society should look down the road to see the end thereof. If we ask the question what if everybody became a homosexual?Would that be good or bad for society?. the answer is obvious that it would be bad for society. In fact it would be the end of society.

Now ask if everybody became a heterosexual person would that be good or bad for society?the answer is that you can't think of anything bad for society about it. It certainly wouldn't spell the end of of society such as homosexuality would. 

Thus the boy scouts position on homosexuals as leaders is the best position between the girl scouts position on homosexuals and the boys scouts position on homosexuals.


Last time I checked, the BSA is a PRIVATE organization. If you don't agree with it's policies, practices, and/or philosophies...don't join. Rather than spend time trying to change this international institution, start your own. I think I speak for most BSA advocates, we will not try and tell YOU how to run your own program. It's not like you see organized protests by Boy Scouts in front of gay bars, abortion clinics, or ACLU offices.


What lesson is the BSA supposed to learn? How allowing homosexuals in leadership and employee positions will ultimately bring down your membership, as it has in the GSA? How it will result in the creation of another organization created from those who have dropped the GSA? 

I think the BSA must be doing something right, since they are still growing.


One of the things I've long admired about the Boy Scouts is a moral uprightness that didn't bend according to popular opinion. While the racial desegregation the author cites is indeed admirable, so many other "modern" aspects of Girl Scouts trouble me, from the GMO ingredients in their cookies to their dogmatic support for abortion--even late-term abortion. What does that even have to do with scouting? You don't have to agree with the traditionally biblical viewpoint on homosexuality, and I really don't care whether you do. As I look at practices the Bible calls sin, I see a pattern of destructive behaviors and a loving God who wants us to "have life and have it more abundantly." I would like to have seen BSA embrace that and say, "I believe what God says and I stand by it," rather than crumble to political correctness.


@Questor7  I was shocked by your comment that the girl scouts support abortion both early and late term.  I don't think that's appropriate at all.  so I went to their web site to see for myself and I found this....

Q: What is Girl Scouts of the USA's position regarding human sexuality, birth control, and abortion?

A: Girl Scouts of the USA (GSUSA) does not take a position or develop materials on these issues. We feel our role is to help girls develop self-confidence and good decision-making skills that will help them make wise choices in all areas of their lives.

Parents or guardians make all decisions regarding program participation that may be of a sensitive nature. Consistent with that belief, GSUSA directs councils, including volunteer leaders, to get written parental permission for any locally planned program that could be considered sensitive.

wow, so your comment was completely wrong.  regarding your stance on the bible and how it depicts a loving god, my feeling is not so much.  does a loving god encourage you to beat your child? would he allow for slavery?  would a loving god create a living person and then sentence them to an eternity of burning suffering?  If that god is all knowing wouldn't he know beforehand who would fail to make the cut and end up in hell?  why would he create something for the sole purpose of tormenting it?  I wont even get into the fact that religion and those that believe in god have been responsible for more suffering than anything on the planet, period.

This is the 21st century guys, I really thought that America settled this argument in the 60's but here we still are trying to educate the ignorant and thoughtless. 


If the gay community wants a Boy Scouts Group, why don't they start their own Boy Scouts?  Why invade and press their moral opinion on us?  Create the Gay American Boy Scouts and you all can go spooning at night in your tents and in your pink sleeping bags.

I'm sick and tired of the gay community telling us what we have to think and what we have to accept.  Can you accept that we have something you don't? Doesn't look like it, they are all hypocrites those gay people.  I respect if somebody chooses the gay life style, but stop telling me that I have to share everything with you. Guess all we can do is pray for them and love on them just like Jesus would have done.  Maybe one day they will stop harassing us and stop screaming everywhere that we are discriminating against them.  Do we heteros still have any rights in this world? There are gay only membership clubs where we heteros are not allowed, so what's the difference between those clubs and the Boy Scouts - who don't want gay people in their "Club?".  Same difference.


@cerda.michael84 First I want to make clear that I HAVE NOT judged anybody. Did you actually read my comment? I wrote:"I respect if somebody chooses the gay life style, ..." - did you read that?

I never said that gay people are bad or that they have less rights than "straight" people do.  You are twisting my words.  And yes, as a "Christian Man" I am against the gay live style - not against the people.  And that's just because it is wrong according to the Bible, in which I believe (you don't have to), that's just my opinion and my believes.

Now if gay people are so upset that we Christians believe that homosexuality is wrong (a sin), why are they trying to constantly invade spaces which have been founded by Christians for Christians.  Do you know the history of the Boy Scouts? Obviously not, because otherwise you would not have written what you wrote.  The Boy Scouts have always been an organization with Christian principles.  If you don't like this religion, then pick a different religion or start your own.  Why do we have to compromise our believes and our moral values - change our religion to fit your moral values, but when we say something, we are discriminating against a group of people or we are hypocrites because we don't show love.

One thing has nothing to do with the other.  I can love on people and give them a warm welcome, yet don't agree with their live style and don't share their moral values.  So the one who should be ashamed is you, not me, because as so usual, those who attack us Christians all the time do this by twisting our words to make them fit their cause, whatever that cause is.

Would I welcome a gay person at the church the same way I welcome everybody else? Of course, there is no difference, we are all children of God.  Would I encourage that person to continue with the gay live style and just skip that part in the Bible where it says homosexuality is a sin ... NO, that's the Word of GOD and I believe in it, if you don't, you don't have to come to church, but if you do, you are welcome to come and listen to what the Bible says.

So please in future read someones comment from the first word to the last word and don't reply until you actually understood what that person wrote and don't add anything that isn't there.  God Bless and my prayers are with you.


@cerda.michael84 Granted that my initial post was written with some degree of anger and that was wrong.  And I would like to apologize for that.  I am not perfect and that's why I need God's Grace just like anybody else.

Now I will try to reply to your post one item at a time.

SHARING ... well at first glance you might have a point there, but ... only at first glance.  If you recall, the Boy Scouts never excluded gays, it was just not allowed to openly commit to the gay live style.  So saying that I don't want to share or that I am contradicting myself is wrong.  Why would I welcome them to church but not the the BSA?  Personally I would share anything I have, but (to get back to the subject) ... and here is the big difference - when a gay person comes to church, they don't demand to change the Bible and take all the verses out that say anything about sex between two men or two women.  And honestly I don't know any homosexual who still goes to church after the out themselves.  So why should the BSA change their policies and moral believes?

As I mentioned before, the argument here is not "should gays be allowed in the boy scouts or not," because they always were allowed.  The questions is should the BSA have to change their moral values, just so gay men/boys feel better about themselves in the BAS?  And that is why I said that I am sick and tired of the gay community pushing their homosexual lifestyle onto us.  Yes I could have worded it a little different, and I already apologized for my bad choice of words.  It takes a man to admit he is wrong, it takes an even bigger man to apologize.

Rights ... well, yes in some way the gay community is taking away rights from us.  Because if an organization such as the BSA, whose moral values have been standing for over 100 years, says we don't compromise our believes (moral values), the gay community just threatens with a law suit and says you have no right to have such discriminating rules.  So where is the right of the BSA to continue believing in their moral values?  It is taken away under the cover of "Political Correctness".  That, in my opinion, is not right.  That's why I wrote (and I apologize again for my poor choice of words) the gay community should form their own BSA and let only gay people become members.  That would have been equal rights for me.  I personally would have had no problem with that.  I would even encourage the two organizations to schedule events together, but don't make BSA change their moral doctrine, just so you can have your way (you = Gay Community).

See I don't know if you are gay or straight and it is not even relevant.  We all know homosexuality has existed since mankind, heck even the Bible describes it (even thought the word homosexuality is never used).  But whatever you do in your own house is your own business and between you and God, just leave it there.  Heteros don't ran around with some kind of symbol to demonstrate that they are heteros.  Why does the whole world need to know what sexual preferences you have.  Keep it for yourself - don't make it public domain.  But the gay community thinks that everybody needs to know and then they wonder when some people who don't want to know, but get confronted with it every day, get mad at them.

Last accusation regarding me saying that the Boy Scouts are a Christian organization.  I never said/wrote that ... HaHa ... I think you need to have your eyes checked.  Here you are pasting a link to an article that has absolutely nothing to do with my statements, because I NEVER SAID THAT GAY PEOPLE ARE A DANGER TO CHILDREN!!!! Yet you fail to read my replies correctly and again change my words.  I am sorry, but maybe you are the one who needs a dictionary.  I said that the BSA was based on Christian principles.  I never said with one word that BSA was a Christian Organization.

To finish it of, here is a link for you, read it if you want.  It explains the principals of the Scouts according to it's founder Robert Stephenson Smyth Baden-Powell, 1st Baron Baden-Powell.  He founded the Scouts in England and William D. Boyce brought the Scouting idea to America based on the model of Baden-Powel.

Here is the link to the page that will tell you about the founder's view on religion and the current (in my opinion forced) view of religion.  Again - IMHO, The Christian view was forced to adapt to other peoples view: Views of religion's place in Scouting

Influential Scout Chiefs/Founders

God Bless you and my compliments for your "still" civilized way of replying to my posts.  I don't think that we will every see eye-to-eye on this, but I think we can agree to disagree.


@charlievie0104 @cerda.michael84 Thank you for voicing this argument so beautifully.  My son's Troop is going through a tough time now; our school is voting on whether or not to keep Scouting in school due to the Scout clarification earlier in the year.  I think our school is more afraid of what the Girl Scouts have done....which is tainting the BSA, as well.  Thank you for showing kindness, while standing ground for everyone in the BSA.  More importantly, I wish (I'm sure you do to) everyone could get back to what Scouting is about, rather than what is not about (sex).   At the end of the day it is a private organization. 


@gherkster Thank you for your recognition.  I appreciate your encouraging words and I hope that your Scouting group will pray before you make your decision.  Even though we are being attacked from all sides right now, but maybe that's the time when we to stand our grounds and love on those people who attack us just like Jesus did. Always remember what Jesus said when He paid the ultimate price for us, and he paid that price for them as well, "...Father forgive them for they know not what they do."  So shall we forgive those who don't know what they do.  Be the shining light and a living example, but still stand your grounds and don't let them trample all over us.

Blessings to you


@charlievie0104This is one the most ignorantly spiteful responses I have ever read to an objective article offering up good hard facts in defense of an idea. You really embody the "Christian "MAN" and what is wrong with America. "Gays" aren't "pressing their moral opinion" on you. This isn't about YOU. This about equal rights for people. You "heteros" (me included), have all the rights in this world. And as an American, you have more rights then most people in this world, some would call you overprivileged. Yet you think that this insult to your rights gives you permission to sit on your pedestal and judge those not like you. You should be ashamed. 


This author misses the point in so many ways about the Scouts...


Are there any of you out there who still remember the 50's or early 60's boy scout manual that had admonitions against "touching yourself improperly," (or something like that...clearly aimed at "solitary vice."  Whew...I guess we've come a long way, baby.  Campfires will never be the same.


Boy Scouts are another 'link in the chain' of morality and right that made this Country and another 'link' that the liberals are destroying. If we continue to allow this, 'God Bless' will be a thing of the past for America.


It's not "discrimination" to exclude sexual perverts.  It's a core part of the group's moral mission.  By selling out, they are abandoning part of the group's core reason to exist.

Moreover, the instant you allow Crooked scouts in, there will be a push for courts to sue the organization into letting Crookedist leaders lead the scouts.  And since there are already dozens of them doing so in violation of policy, leading to hundreds of molestations at knife-to-throat point already, lifting the ban will only lead to even more rapes.

This change of policy has changed the Boy Scouts' mission for existing from being about learning how to survive in the woods and become role models in the community, to being a place where kids can be molested freely, and given "coming of age" experiences to recruit them to the Crooked Rainbow's lobbies.  

Such has been part of the agenda since Michael Swift wrote his Gay Manifesto in the 80s.  Turns out, it was never satire.  They meant every word.  And now, they're being allowed to have everything they want.  You can't make immorality become either morality or "equality," EVER.  And you ESPECIALLY cannot achieve that end if you have to do so with political force.  And that's what happened here.  The organization's identity has just been anally raped.  And soon, its members will be lined up against a wall, to also be anally raped - at knife-to-throat point.  Just as these monsters have been doing in secret in the organization since forever.


YOU ARE SO RIGHT! Girl Scouts of the USA can teach Boy Scouts how to move away from God by asterisking His name in all their literature. Or, in the case of Australia, removing God entirely from all their literature. After all, Girl Scouts and Girl Guides around the world are lead by the World Association of Girl Guides and Girl Scouts, which is openly advocating to legalize PROSTITUTION and removed God from it's Promise in 2010 (Google it). Girl Scouts also are so "inclusive" that they welcome transgenders (boys who merely wish they were girls) to hide amongst other people's daughters with GSUSA's full cooperation and protection through the 12th Grade. Nevermind that a male with all his plumbing can end up sleeping with, changing, showering next to your daughter without parents knowing.Nevermind that transgenders can "choose" to be both "girls" and lesbian. Nevermind they are single-handedly changing the definition of "girl" away from the dictionary definition of "female child" to the Gay Agenda term of "gender identity" and "gender choice". Gay rights are MORE IMPORTANT than child safety in Girl Scouts. THAT is what Boy Scouts can learn from GSUSA.





The wicked will try to tear anything good apart.

Boy Scouts from around the globe meet the first Saturday of every month at Dillingham Airfield Hawaii. Military and Ret. Military Pilots and Pilots from around the planet are Honored to teach Scouts to become are next leaders by helping them be come Pilots.

Hawaii Aviation Explorer Post 2013

- AcroFlight International Glider Motorglider School



"(" When Injustice Becomes Law Rebellion Becomes Duty " THOMAS JEFFERSON ).

("United We Will Always Stand in GOD We Trust"

George Washington and Johann Paul Schott 12/24/1776. 3:45AM)

("In GOD We Trust")
The United States of America’s Motto July 30, 1956.
King David’s Motto 3,000 years ago.
Soon all the World will Pray to Our Lord GOD and Savior Jesus Christ.

"United We Will Always Stand in Our Lord GOD and Savior Jesus Christ We Trust"
True Americans
True Patriots

GOD Bless
and May HE Guide you all.

The Lord’s Little Helper.
Paul Felix Schott.



Whatever! The scout law is unequivocal! If you don't agree to the moral code then you don't want scouting to begin with. Whether you are homosexual or hetereosexual as a boy scout doesn't matter, neither is allowed to have sex. As a scout leader, who cares if scouting bans leaders? The program isn't supposed to cater to adults anyway. If you have attraction to the same sex then it only stands to reason that you are not camping with young persons of your same sex. But then, the gay agenda never was about rationale now was it?


I know from experience that gay students on overnight school trips cannot share a room together for liability reasons.  Why would it be different for scouting?  If openly gay scouts join, would it be a problem if they had to sleep alone for insurance reasons?


Straights deserve a place to be together too, and if they don’t want gays or bi or trans or whatever bothering them, they shouldn’t have it forced upon them.

By eliminating their freedom of assembly you are trying to change them against their will. By forcing change upon them you are closing off the sphere where they can feel accepted and tolerated and normal. You, like most rebellions eventually do, are becoming what you hate. You are taking on the role of the oppressors  because you don’t know when to stop pushing, and all that energy and organization has to go somewhere. This is not the place for it.

If you believe in gay rights, you should believe in straight rights. This isn’t a matter of what you want, or think is just or right or fair. This is about freedom and giving people space to be human and prejudiced and all the other nasty things that come along with our flesh and blood bodies.

If the boy scouts are destined to become the place where straights congregate to feel accepted, away from all the prejudice that gays heap upon them for their lifestyle choices, then so be it. You have no right to tell them how to live their lives.

The electors in this vote should vote no. So that straights have a place to go they can call home.


Ms Christakis:

I always get a kick out of hearing Harvard graduates blow off those that disagree as connected to the "power elite" or some other sloganeering. Superficially you seem to accept other peoples moral values perhaps even to the edge of "Freedom of Association"' Then you go on to explain why Scouting and the moral values that have underlay the movement for over 100 years are wrong. This is not about homosexual youth. The idea that youth who define themselves by their sexuality is really a wedge issue to overthrow the religious values of millions of us who do not share your views. If one buys the idea that Scouts who define themselves by a practice you would argue is neutral  what intellectual defense is there to exclude their adult counterparts. Come on here lets be honest.

Let me suggest in your ideological zeal you are missing the obvious solution. Why not have homosexuals and those with morally neutral values on their behavior start their own youth movement. In this way parents who do not have issues with this form of sexuality and the neutral climate to support it can place their kids in that environment. Rather than fight or force those who disagree we could have true diversity. As you have said that makes for greater creativity and better decision making.

Andre N. Coulombe

Eagle Scout


While reading these comments I'm not sure whether I should laugh or cry. People speak of morality and then proceed to insult others a few sentences later. People on this list are speaking against bigotry and doing the same damn thing. It seems as though nobody can express their opinions anymore without bullying. How can the boy scouts accept gays if we can't even accept each other and have an intelligible debate?

I'm done with modern society. I think I'll leave and become a hermit in the mountains. Try to work it out. I'll be back in ten years or so.


Why is it an "unfortunate truth [...] that American women, generally speaking, are finding it easier to adapt to a country of diverse people and ideas"?


It is not GSA, it is GSUSA.

GSA is the acronym for the Gay Straight Alliance.


I appreciate the car wash guy who discerns where the automated washer missed a spot of dirt and cleans it by hand.  Then again when my teen discriminated against the smoking crowd and never picked up the habit, that decision represented successful milestone.  However, even if she did, I'd love her and not her habit.  Similarly, there are several reasons to discriminate against homosexuality.  

Behaviorally, homosexuality creates a high level of social turmoil beginning with public bathrooms, showers, dorm rooms and military barracks.  Previously separated by gender to preserve personal privacy and eliminate sexual attraction, they now become a state of chaos when it's not just opposites that attract.  Moreover, consider the objections of couple subject to a “pat down” by a gay policeman, who violates their sexual privacy under the guise of the “law of non-discrimination”.  Sexual privacy needs are afforded when an individual has adequate physical and visual separation from anyone attracted to their sex.  By definition, homosexuals deny society of its sexual privacy.

As it affects health, homosexuals experience greater depression resulting from rejection by a majority of the population who oppose homosexually, amplified when impressionable children are exposed to a lifestyle parents abhor, and who recognize how it terminates family legacies.

On a biological level, homosexuality is dysfunctional, ignores that life is sexually transmitted and everyone acknowledges it’s contrary to the sexual orientation of their straight parents.  Also, it introduces human waste into the reproduction system which is reprehensible.  It raises the risk of acquiring AIDS/HIV,  increases health care costs and shortens life spans.  Who buys a new car and throws it overboard as a boat anchor, destroying its intended purpose.

Theologically, homosexuality is contrary to the Bible resulting in the gay community embracing  atheism as it conflicts with their hedonistic lifestyle.  Scriptural condemnation begins in Genesis with the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah and continues through Revelation.  However, consider His grace reflected in I Corinthians 6::9 “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! The sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, passive homosexual partners, practicing homosexuals,10 thieves, the greedy, drunkards, the verbally abusive, and swindlers will not inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Some of you once lived this way. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.”  Rejecting His grace, we just become another Godless nation.

More compelling verses:
Leviticus 18:22
“Do not practice homosexuality; it is a detestable sin.”

And for raising children: Luke 17:2
“It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin.”


I don't know why everyone is making this some kind of esoteric philosophical debate.  The whole issue is about where boys want to stick their weiners.  In our society, we generally try to keep separate (in certain social contexts) those who wish to stick with weiners and those who wish to be stuck by weiners. Call it modesty or prudishness or whatever: boys and girls have separate bathrooms, changing rooms, dormitories, etc because of the whole weiner-sticking thing.  When you have a boy that wants to stick his weiner in other boys, then things like sharing tents, changing rooms, showers, etc. becomes uncomfortable for all involved.

Would you force a teenage boy and a teenage girl to share a tent?  Why not?  I'm not suggesting that the the boy would be overcome with an insatiable urge to commit some kind of assault (or vice versa) or that either of them would even behave inappropriately, but it is an unfair position to place both of them in.


The consequences of ignoring our Creator’s design:

Ge 13:13 But the men of Sodom were exceedingly wicked and sinful against the LORD.

Ge 18:20 And the LORD said, "Because the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grave,

 21 "I will go down now and see whether they have done altogether according to the outcry against it that has come to Me; and if not, I will know."

Ge 19:4 Now before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both old and young, all the people from every quarter, surrounded the house.

 5 And they called to Lot and said to him, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may know them carnally."

Ge 19:24 Then the LORD rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from the LORD out of the heavens.

 25 So He overthrew those cities, all the plain, all the inhabitants of the cities, and what grew on the ground.

2Pe 2:6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly;

 7  and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked

 8 (for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds) --

 9 then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment,

 10  and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness [homosexuality] and despise authority.

Jude 1:7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh [homosexuality], are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.