Is Katie Couric the Next Jenny McCarthy?

A former Playboy Bunny spreading misinformation is bad enough

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Frederick M. Brown / Getty Images

Katie Couric at the Beverly Hilton Hotel in Beverly Hills, Calif., on July 26, 2012

There is no “HPV-vaccine controversy.” At least, not when it comes to the injection’s safety. And yet, that was the title of the lead segment on Katie Couric’s daytime talk show, Katie, this afternoon. The nearly half-hour story, which the program called their “Big Conversation,” centered around two mothers who believe the vaccine for human papillomavirus (HPV) harmed their daughters.

Among the guests was Emily Tarsell, a mother who claims the death of her daughter Christina was caused by the HPV vaccine Gardasil in 2008. Another mother-and-daughter pair, Rosemary and Lauren Mathis, believe Lauren developed a bizarre illness characterized by nausea and fatigue because of the vaccine. Rosemary Mathis is now the director of the anti-HPV organization, SaneVax Inc.

Tarsell and Mathis are understandably distraught mothers. But Couric is a journalist.

(MORE: Less Is More: One Instead of Three Doses of HPV Vaccine May Protect Against Cervical Cancer)

The bottom line is that there is no scientific evidence that the HPV vaccine causes adverse effects beyond normal vaccine side effects, such as dizziness, nausea, and pain and redness at the injection site. According to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), from June 2006 to March 2013, some 57 million doses of HPV vaccines were distributed. In that period, some 22,000 adverse events were reported in girls and women who had received HPV vaccines; 92% of those were classified as nonserious.

The risks of HPV, on the other hand, are quite real. Every year, about 12,000 U.S. women get cervical cancer, and HPV is the leading cause. HPV can also cause other cancers like vulvar, vaginal, penile, anal, and neck and throat cancers, which is why the CDC recommends the vaccine for girls and boys ages 11 or 12 — before most adolescents become sexually active. CDC data show that roughly 79 million Americans have HPV and about 14 million people become infected each year. The HPV vaccine can prevent a good number of these infections, and thus millions of potential cases of cancer.

The two HPV vaccines currently available, Gardasil and Cervarix, are both proved safe through clinical trials, independent studies and postlicensure monitoring. The CDC and the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) also continue to track the vaccines’ safety.

And yet Couric has framed the issue as if there were a debate to be had about whether the HPV vaccines are good for the public’s health.

“This kind of coverage is so incredibly irresponsible,” says Seth Mnookin, author of The Panic Virus: The True Story Behind the Vaccine-Autism Controversy. “The danger of saying we are going to present both sides of an issue, when all of the facts line up on one side, is that as far as the audience is concerned, you are giving these sides equal weight. It presents a false impression that there is a legitimate debate here.”

(MORE: The HPV Vaccine and the Case for Race-Based Medicine)

Physicians and medical organizations like the CDC are continuously forced to dispel myths surrounding vaccines. Giving a platform to claims not based in science makes their jobs much harder and puts people’s lives at risk, as we’ve seen with the resurgence of childhood diseases like measles and mumps in places where parents have refused vaccination.

One of Couric’s sources on the program, Dr. Diane Harper, who has studied HPV vaccines, said the vaccine loses efficacy after five years — a claim that research simply does not support. “With that one sentence, she reached who knows how many people who will go out and assume that is true, and tell their friends it is true,” says Mnookin.

Sure, it is possible that Tarsell’s daughter died of a reaction related to the vaccine. Such cases are rare, but possible for any medical procedure. But giving massive publicity to unfounded claims — Couric’s show reaches roughly 2.7 million viewers daily — is very serious.

Take Jenny McCarthy, the actress who is very public about her belief that vaccines play a role in causing autism, even though the link between the two has been debunked time and again. McCarthy’s affiliation with Generation Rescue, an organization that says autism is linked to vaccines, gives her a soapbox to scare parents into reconsidering life-saving vaccinations. McCarthy is not a doctor or scientist, and yet a 2011 survey by the University of Michigan found that 24% of parents say they place “some trust” in information provided by celebrities like McCarthy about vaccine safety.

The damage a former Playboy Bunny has been able to do is bad enough. But Couric’s misdeeds are all the worse given that she’s taken much more seriously than Jenny McCarthy.

MORE: Bad Medicine: Putting Jenny McCarthy on The View Is Media Malpractice

434 comments
matt.m.nadler
matt.m.nadler

Couric's husband died of colon cancer. Think she'd air people arguing that screening is harmful, deadly, and unnecessary? Doubtful.

lilady
lilady

It wasn't a balanced program.  Two women appeared who are associated with a notorious anti-vaccine website (SaneVax).  One woman is the founder of that website and claims her daughter felt poorly after each of the three shots of Gardasil and now has some sort of chronic condition; she urges people to self-report the after effects to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) and to institute lawsuits in the US Court of Federal Claims (Vaccine Court) claiming vaccine injuries.  She herself has never instituted a lawsuit in Vaccine Court on behalf of her daughter, yet she has the nerve to appear on Katie Couric's show with the outrageous claims of permanent vaccine injuries.  You've got to wonder why this crank anti-vaccine, anti-science founder of SaneVax hasn't made a claim in the Vaccine Court.


I've seen the VAERS complaints (identifying information redacted), and claims of deaths by drownings, motor vehicle accidents and gunshot wounds to the head months after receiving a Gardasil vaccine are reported as vaccine injuries. Many of the "reporters" to the VAERS are absolute strangers to the "victims" of a purported vaccine injury/vaccine death; these "stranger" reporters each make dozens of claims on behalf of dozens of young women.  They don't even know the names of the multiple girls that they "report".  They tell VAERS investigators, they read about a purported injury/purported death on the internet or they heard about a purported injury/death by talking with an acquaintance they met while shopping in a supermarket.


The other woman who claims her daughter died as a result of Gardasil Vaccine shots did make a claim in Vaccine Court which is still pending.  She refused to discuss the circumstances that led to her daughters death on television, because of that pending claim.  You don't have to be a lawyer to understand the weakness of plaintiffs' case, in light of her child's preexisting cardiac arrythmias which often lead to "sudden cardiac death".  Ms. Tarsell has not provided expert witnesses or any witnesses who could describe the last few weeks of her child's life.  The medical examiner determined that she died between 36-72 hours before her body was discovered by a roommate.  Go ahead read the entire interim order and the judge's conclusion.  I'll wait.

http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/opinions/MORAN.TARSELL033012.pdf


Ms. Tarsell is active in the SaneVax group and is a an officer of The Canary Party...the political arm of two notorious anti-vaccine, anti-science groups (Age of Autism and Generation Rescue...Jenny McCarthy's organization.  Ms. Tarsell has given multiple interviews about her daughter supposed death from Gardasil vaccine; you can find videos of those many interviews on YouTube.  During one of those interviews she clearly states that "someone" told her about purported deaths due to Gardasil...fully three weeks after her child died.


Dr. Harper supposedly "developed" Gardasil vaccine; she did not.  She was one of many doctors who participated in clinical trials of the vaccine and she participated in the design of the clinical trial studies.  Dr. Harper was "mistaken" with her claim that the vaccine only "lasts" five years.  Testing for immunity and efficacy against the two strains of human papiloma virus that are contained in Gardasil vaccine (and which are implicated in > 70 % of cervical cancers (12,000 new cases each year in the United States) and 3,000 cervical  cancer deaths in the United States each year is ongoing since its licensure by the FDA and there is no loss of immunity or loss of efficacy since its licensure.  Testing for immunity and efficacy in Sweden and Denmark

 since its licensure in those countries 8 years ago, show no loss of immunity and efficacy and new cases of human papiloma virus have plummeted in those immunized by HPV vaccines:

http://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2013/12/07/the-real-hpv-controversy-from-katie-courics-show-her-expert/

and,


http://www.forbes.com/sites/matthewherper/2013/12/04/four-ways-katie-couric-stacked-the-deck-against-gardasil/


Cervical cancer and Cervical cancer deaths are not just diseases of older women:


http://shotofprevention.com/2013/12/05/victims-katie-couric-neglected-to-mention-in-her-discussion-of-hpv/








MAK1966
MAK1966

This was a very balanced program and the backlash just shows how hysterical people become even discussing the possibility that vaccines aren't 100% safe. Vaccines aren't candy and no medication or procedure is without risk. Why is it so difficult to accept the possibility that Gardasilc could cause serious adverse events for some people? Dr Harper didn't just study Gardasil, she was involved in the clinical trials and Katie Couric also read a statement from the CDC. Why is it so irresponsible for her to present both sides of the issue? There are many more young women who have had adverse events after Gardasil, Japan has suspended it's use because of adverse events there. It's not irresponsible to bring those possibilities to light. That is what a journalist does-inform the public. I've seen other people on shows talking about adverse events from Gardasil and there wasn't the hoopla that this show generated. Maybe that's becasue this show might have been a little too informative for some people's taste, so now Katie Couric must be attacked and discredited.

EvanE
EvanE

What a joke TIME is.  Can't ever jeopardize those million dollar 5 page drug ads in your shill owned magazine, so just keep up the same old garbage hit pieces and ignore a growing mountain of evidence that big pharma and all their scam drugs and vaccines are about to be tossed into the dustbin of history as they cure nothing and cause incalculable harm.  Your day of reckoning is fast approaching.  

shell
shell

1 in 5 children are suddenly Neurologically Impaired, 1 in 6 Developmentally Disabled, 1in 10 ADHD, 1 in 50 Autistic which equates to 1 in 29 boys and 1 in 25 in some areas. What happened to our children? The US passed a law that says you could never sue a vaccine maker in regular court and kids went from 7 lifetime vaccines to more than 70 containing aluminum, Thimerosal (mercury), embalming fluid, fetal cells, cells of Dogs, cows, pigs, chicks, caterpillars, parts of latex. Peanut byproducts. Peanut products alone has caused this generation to have dangerous anaphylactic reactions and school districts have had to remove all traces- yet kids are shot up with these .Ingredients need not be listed for "Proprietary" reasons? You do not have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that when you inject a baby from 3 to 12 hours old and again with 70 needles containing poisonous chemicals and animal parts that something will make children ill.  The NYTIMES has been a refuge for this mad science experiment. More children are chronically ill than ever (54%).  "Recovering Autism, ADHD, & Special Needs.'

brandonslayton
brandonslayton

What a poorly written article, Alexandra Sifferlin presents assumptions without data or proof. It is littered with fallacies. Anybody capable of critical-thinking would see that Alexandra is pandering to the mainstream narrative of Vaccine safety. She is no journalist but another talking head claiming vaccines are safe by smear and scare tactics. 

LydiaAlexandra
LydiaAlexandra

http://youtu.be/Dh-nkD5LSIg. Saying there is no HPV controversy and that vaccines do not cause Autism is a huge injustice. Please watch this ten minute video of Sanjay Gupta interviewing the former head of the CDC. She explains the link.

lilady
lilady

redfox:  If you are referring to the adverse events reported on the VAERS, then you are relying on a passive reporting system  It is far better to look at the safety profile generated by active surveillance during clinical trials and during ongoing monitoring through the Vaccine Safety Datalink:


http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/vaccines/HPV/Index.html

redfox
redfox

92% of the 22,000 adverse effects were minor so that leaves 1,760 people who had serious side effects.  I would like to know what those individuals experienced.  Because if it's anything like the flu shot which is very safe until it's not.  If you're that 1:100,000 person who gets Guillen Barre Syndrome from it you will wish you had taken your chances with the flu.  If the adverse effects are worse than the disease you are trying to prevent then it seems clear you should skip the vaccine.

DoritReiss
DoritReiss

To the author: Thank you for this excellent coverage, highlighting the problems with Ms. Couric's faulty presentation and the real risks for HPV. I hope that your willingness to speak up loud and clear - and the willingness of others to do so - will help reduce the damage from Ms. Couric's bad choices.

lilady
lilady

More fact-free rants from the anti-vaxxers. How about showing us with um, some facts, from epidemiological studies that the exceedingly rare serious adverse event (on the order of 1:1,000,000 per vaccine administered...or less), exceeds by orders of magnitude the serious, sometimes deadly, consequences of not protecting infants and children from childhood vaccine-preventable-diseases?

WideAwake
WideAwake

Why are you (the brainwashed writer of this article) so badly informed about vaccines? It contains poison and IS NOT GOOD for any human being especially those with compromised immune systems because of the S A D diet. The mother that you label as "a former Playboy Bunny" is definitely MORE awake than you. She has a very valid concern about the well-being of her son. Katie Couric is certainly truly wise when she exposes the REALITY that many want to hush just to save their pockets. Why are parents so willing to "sacrifice" their children just to please tunnel vision doctors who want to pacify their Big Pharma buddies.

Have parents lost their sense of responsibility as CARE GIVERS? 




ariver9
ariver9

@JohnStone  CynthiaParker John, I looked at your website Age of Autism today and was impressed with all the work that you are doing to educate us, parents. I also wanted to refer you to an excellent source of information  that lists "causative" evidence on Gardasil, that prolific shameless troll Dorit Reiss demands from every grieving parent, being a lawyer for the industry, that is doing everything to hide from us not even "causative", but even  "anecdotal" evidence - two of her favorite words, without which she would be a naked queen, not a spooky lawyer. Google 


NATURALNEWS.COM/GARDASIL 

Looks like the tide is turning on the Gardasil/Cervarix industry. That is why they became so vicious, stiffling any hint of honest discussion on every blog that mentions Gardasil. (It is the same Dorit and several junior trolls associated with her - on every blog) Parents like me come in, write a post or two,and go away, scared by  the atmosphere  of market place brawl and disinformation that this people set on all blogs. 

One of them already promised to sue me on behalf of  this Dorit for posting on this site; to which I replied in her manner that  her Dorit  will not sue enough from me to reward her with the doggy sandwich.  Every lie has its end.

 Japan in June 2013 stopped HPV vaccines siting infertility concerns and  high rate of side effects after they did some independent studies. In Australia the girl whose ovaries were destroyed by Gardasil  is suing Merck, and it appeared that Merck conveniently  " forgot" to do studies on reproductive system. In Israel activists are suing Dorit Reiss for lies and libels, and she is whining on one of her blogs that they should not "suppress free discussion" (so much for suing me, Where is your promised lawsuit, Dorit aka lielienolady ?  Project much? Busted? -in your own terminology that you like to use to suppress other bloggers). 

Dorit Reiss is now working  on the proposal that gives government the right to sue parents for refusal to immunise their children- what a piece of slime she is! 

As the proverb says "the worms become angrier before dying"


I think it is time to start a petition for Congress to investigate Merck.


lilady
lilady

CIA:  Stop referring to your daughter as "vaccine-damaged".  You keep telling that story about her "encephalitic cry" and resulting encephalopathy...yet you never took her to an emergency room for a diagnosis and for treatment in the NICU for that serious encephalitis.  What kind of parent are you?


Perhaps you should find another group of internet friends other than the "journalists" and groupies on Age of Autism, because they will not help you and your daughter when it comes to advocating for meaningful services at the Federal, State and local levels.  With them, and with you, it is always the vaccines, which you all blame for your childrens' ASD diagnoses.


How many more studies do you need to convince you that vaccines, the ingredients in vaccines, the spacing and timing of vaccines are not implicated in the onset of ASDs or any other developmental disorder?

http://www2.aap.org/immunization/families/faq/vaccinestudies.pdf

 

CynthiaParker
CynthiaParker

Lil, part two,

. And I'm sure that's how her future will be too, especially when she ages out of the meager public resources still available to her. My city has no idea what they are going to do with all the autistic kids once their elderly parents die or are no longer able to take care of them: the case manager said that they had no plan at all as to what to do when that moment comes. He said the autistic population here in school-aged children has exploded just since he began working there five years ago, and many of the moms have told him it was vaccines that caused their childrens' autism. Í hate to get another minute older, I'm so afraid when I think of what will happen to her when I die. I have no relatives to help me or her. And all because of the vaccine encephalitis from the hep-B vaccine and the DTaP booster which erased her only two words. Great, the hospital got their $20 bonus for another newborn vaxed without permission, to prevent a sexually transmitted disease that I had tested negative for, as virtually all pregnant women do. A life ruined so they could get their lousy twenty buck bonus. You should feel sorry for me as well, Lil, sorry for all these families who lost their daughters to Gardasil, sorry for all the families who lost their children to MMR, DTaP, or flu vaccines. .

CynthiaParker
CynthiaParker

Lil,

I can't get to your latest post, about your feeling sorry for my daughter.I feel sorry for my daughter, too, developmentally disabled, very low-verbal, lonely, adrift at school where the autism resource specialist refuses to have them provide work that she could understand, complete herself, and learn something from. She's bored and isolated, and can't tell anyone anything about what happens to her or how she feels about it. She's overwhelmed, yet the personnel at school are not doing anything to help her. The special autism teacher emailed me last week, saying all the autistic seventh graders were getting an F in science, but not to worry, he was going to raise all the grades to passing. So no one cares if the work is at their level or not, easier just to raise the grades even though they can't do the work. Just like it's easier to just deny vaccine damage rather than stop it. Free and appropriate public education are words that mean nothing at all here

Sarah_A
Sarah_A

@CynthiaParker


"Worse than just not having any effect on serotypes other than 16 and 18, giving Gardasil actually had a negative 23% efficacy, meaning that it caused MORE people to develop CIN3 lesions to other HPV types. There were 70 cases of non HPV 16/18 infection in the vaxed women, but only 57 in the unvaxed women in the control group."


Could you please share where you're getting this data from?  I've combed the results from both FUTURE I and FUTURE II and I don't see any data corresponding to your figures.  The closest thing I can find is in the FIGURE I data, where 79 out of 2723 vaccinated women developed grade 3 cervical lesions vs 72 out of 2732 unvaccinated women, but the difference was not statistically significant (95% CI: <0 - 22).  Hopefully this link will work:   http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa061760 



lilady
lilady

Sarah A.:  Your link did not work.  Fortunately, I was able to locate the study you are referring to, on PubMed:



http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa061741#t=article

That study you reference was published in the New England Journal of Medicine 2007.  How about you comment on the more recent studies about the long-lasting efficacy of the quadrivalent Gardasil and the dramatic decrease in  HPV infections for the young women who received Gardasil vaccine, that have been linked to, by posters here?

Your posts are so similar to Parker's...are you related to CIA Parker?

Sarah_A
Sarah_A

"But the larger FUTURE II trial showed that Gardasil's efficacy against all high-grade lesions, not just Gardasil-included types 16 and 18, was only 17%, not the 100% touted by Merck."


You either don't understand, or are deliberately lying about, the difference between the per-protocol and intent-to-treat results.  Out of over 12,000 subjects, over 4,000 (about 1/3) were excluded from the per-protocol analysis because they already had HPV-16 and/or 18, didn't get all three doses of vaccine (or placebo), didn't come in for swabs, etc.  In other words, the per-protocol analysis showed that Gardasil was 98% effective at preventing cervical lesions in young women who a) didn't already have HPV, b) actually received the full vaccine schedule, and c) for whom complete data was obtained.  Because the intent-to-treat analysis (the one that showed only 17% efficacy) included young women who already had HPV, didn't get all the shots, etc, its irrelevant to evaluating the efficacy of Gardasil (its performed for arcane statistical reasons.) 


Sarah_A
Sarah_A

@MAK1966  


"Balanced?"  Give me a break.  First you get a story about a young woman dying after getting the vaccine (but no mention of the fact that she had abnormal EKGs before she ever got the vaccine: http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/emily-tarsell-executrix-estate-christina-tarsell-v-secretary-health-and-human-services-10251v).  Then Dr. Harper refusing to answer the question of whether the benefits of Gardisil outweigh the risks but instead going on about how Pap smears are virtually 100% effective at preventing cervical cancer (then how come 12,000 women still get cervical cancer every year and 4,000 die from it?)  Then another story about a teenager who was deathly ill for several months after getting the third dose of the vaccine (the mother claims she was also very sick after the first 2 doses, so why did she keep bringing her in for shots?  Can you say "hindsight bias?")  And then, dead last, a much shorter interview with Dr. Marshall (who tries to explain the whole "correlation does not equal causation" thing - *again*) and a mother and her teenage daughter who got the shot with no ill effects.


In short, the entire program was engineered to cause the maximum amount of anxiety and doubt in parents (fear = ratings) without any real evidence but also without actually lying and potentially getting sued.  

Sarah_A
Sarah_A

@CindySamora 


Nice try.  Merck recalled one lot which *might* have glass particles in 10 vials (out of >700,000) due to breakage during the manufacturing process.  If someone were to get a vial with glass in it, they might experience redness and swelling at the injection site.  Were you seriously hoping that everyone reading your comment would simply panic at the title of your link without reading the article?  

DoritReiss
DoritReiss

@shell none of these harms are actually connected to vaccines. Vaccines do not cause any of them, though they do not prevent them: they only prevent the diseases you vaccinate against. Yes, ingredients do need to be listed, and vaccines do not contain, for example, peanut products. A peanut adjuvant was experimented with in the 1970s but never approved. 


Vaccines protect children against dangerous diseases. 

AlbusNerdisky
AlbusNerdisky

@redfox


Except the 22,000 number comes from counting basically anything bad that happens after vaccination.Clearly this number has nothing to do with actual number of adverse reactions to the vaccine.

Funny thing, there are ways to accurate determine true reactions to vaccines, but the anti-vaccs never seem interested in getting this data accurate…go figure.

BTW, you might want to check what safe means in this context.

W&N



Sarah_A
Sarah_A

Similarly, if you're the 1 in 100,000 who gets trapped in a burning car by your seatbelt, you'll wish you'd taken your chances with getting launched through the windshield.  But since in real life we can't predict the future, we play the odds as best we can.    


In the case of Katie Couric, however, she's not just giving undue weight to a rare but real adverse reaction to the vaccine, she's actually withholding information that strongly suggests that at least one of the "adverse reactions" (Christine Tarsell's death) had nothing to do with the vaccine (i.e., the fact that she had abnormal EKGs *before* getting the vaccine: <http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/emily-tarsell-executrix-estate-christina-tarsell-v-secretary-health-and-human-services-10251v>  Given that the majority of sudden deaths in young adults are cardiac in nature (<http://circep.ahajournals.org/content/3/1/96.full>), I'd say that's a pretty big oversight.    

EvanE
EvanE

@lilady 1 in a million?  Okay, lady, next time you get your scam flu shot, ASK for the insert and read it.  You then show me their own numbers (which are fudged as much as possible since trials exclude sick kids) for the whopping 3 week follow up and tell me it's one in a million. 

AlbusNerdisky
AlbusNerdisky

@ariver9 @JohnStone




Well…there are two groups of people.



Those that fact check and those so foolish as to believe the anti-vaccs like Age of Autism.



Let’s see what the Japanese say:


http://www.tokyotimes.com/2013/hpv-vaccine-seen-differently-by-japan-and-the-u-s/

Use of HPV was not stopped:

“The vaccination in Japan is not suspended, but the use of the vaccine is not promoted by local governments, as instructed by the Japanese Ministry of Health, Labor, and Welfare.”

And

“The decision does not mean that the vaccine itself is problematic from the viewpoint of safety,”

All it takes is the integrity to look….

W&N




DoritReiss
DoritReiss

@ariver9 @JohnStone I'm a little confused. Someone promised to sue you for doing what? Certainly, such a promise was not made by me or on my behalf. Nor am I being sued in Israel: my op-ed was criticizing anti-vaccine activists threatening to sue others because of internet comments, in an attempt to silence pro-vaccine voices: http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/handling-debate-by-threatening-legal-action-anti-vaccination-activists-in-israel/.


Lilady already pointed out that Japan did not ban vaccines, though they did remove their recommendation of HPV vaccines because of complaints about pain - although HPV related cancers kill over 2000 Japanese women each year. Hardly a good public policy decision, but Japan is known to be overcautious about vaccine - like when they stopped giving infants the whooping cough vaccine in the 1970s, leading to whooping cough outbreaks with over 30 babies dying. 

lilady
lilady

Natural News and Mikey Adams as a resource for your health information...you must be kidding:


http://americanloons.blogspot.com/2010/05/1-mike-adams.html


You are mistaken about the unavailability of Gardasil vaccine in Japan.  See, that's what happens when a country does not have an effective vaccine distribution program and an effective safety monitoring system in place.  The Japanese Minister of Health has much bigger problems with huge outbreaks (10,000 cases) of rubella and the resulting cases of Congenital Rubella Syndrome:


http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2813%2961831-0/fulltext


Sorry Ariver9, your paranoia and your imagination is ruling your emotions.  I bet you see monsters under the bed, as well.  Dorit Reiss is a law school professor and I am a retired public health nurse clinician-epidemiologist.  Imagine that.  We are different people.


Why don't you start a go-no-where petition?  Most of the elected federal legislators are quite aware of the collective paranoia of the anti-vaxxers.

DoritReiss
DoritReiss

@CynthiaParker I would happily support efforts to increase the support available to families with autistic children. If you spent less time promoting incorrect information about vaccines and channeled your energy to helping build support systems to help people like yourself, you could make a real difference. 

AlbusNerdisky
AlbusNerdisky

@CynthiaParker

And people that do try and get the science right will immediately see that not only do vaccines not cause autism, but that Hep B is not just an STD and that all US infants are at risk...oh and that the same old anti-vaccs just keep spreading the same old BS year after year after year..

W&N

AlbusNerdisky
AlbusNerdisky

@CynthiaParker

Your daughter's health problems are exactly why it is so important to get the science right.

And a reminder of the damage done by the anti-vaccs in driving countless millions of research $ to be wasted demonstrating time after time that they are wrong.

W&N

AlbusNerdisky
AlbusNerdisky

@Sarah_A

" but the difference was not statistically significant (95% CI: <0 - 22). "

That is not fair.You read the studies.You understood the data.

The rather important point you brought up has been coming up literally for years and yet somehow the anti-vaccs just won't get it right.

W&N

lilady
lilady

Apologies to Sara A:  I  only viewed your first sentence and didn't realize that you were quoting CIA.


AlbusNerdisky
AlbusNerdisky

@Sarah_A

"You either don't understand, or are deliberately lying ..."

Just a reminder, these are not mutually exclusive possibilities.

W&N

MikeStevens1
MikeStevens1

Failing to understand, or lying?

Well, this simple concept has been explained to her so many times now that if anyone still fails to understand it they must be extremely stupid. And I give Cynthia the benefit of any doubt, because I think she is not stupid.

So the only alternative is that she is lying. Her agenda? To persuade others to stop using life-saving vaccines. Why she wants to do this I have no idea.

EvanE
EvanE

@AlbusNerdisky @redfox Indeed there are.  Like REAL controls in vaccine studies where the vaccine is compared to a saline injection and not ANOTHER vaccine (can you imagine comparing naproxen to ibuprofen and declaring it perfectly safe because it doesn't cause more issues?  Well, welcome to the vaccine world).  Oh, but wait, that has occurred in exactly ONE study (a flu shot study and the results showed a clear 5 fold increase in reactions, including severe ones like hospitalization).  Don't accuse the anti-vaxers of the very thing the pro-vaxers always commit.  Those who actually take the time to look at studies virtually always join the anti-vax side.  

EvanE
EvanE

@Sarah_A Show me the odds Gardasil actually prevents cancer.  Oh wait, unless you posses a time machine and can go 30 years into the future and take a look the ENTIRE endeavor is just speculation (a highly profitable one of course, for Merck and their minions).  But actually. last I checked, some early results were in (not on cancer since that takes decades to pan out) and the HPV vaccinated had MORE HPV than the un-vaccinated!  Explain that?  Oh, well, I can explain that.  It's called vaccines are not real immunity and set up the host with a dysfunctional immune response once the fake immunity wears off.  But, no, just keep ignoring that it is nearly always the vaccinated people who get the exact disease they were vaccinated for and continue blindly following your dogma to your promised land of health (which is actually a disease and misery filled wasteland that somehow you tools can't ever seem to see).

AlbusNerdisky
AlbusNerdisky

@EvanE@lilady


So I asked our 16 year old to look for flu vaccine trials that included sick children….took about 1 minute for him to find some….like this one:


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24249544


Bottom line:is anyone that has made it through middle school, and who bothers to look, immediately sees that the anti-vaccs are simply not truthful about the safety or the efficacy of vaccines.


W&N


lilady
lilady

@EvanE@liladyDo you mean the seasonal influenza vaccine?  I've read the inserts on that vaccine and every other vaccine that is on the Recommended Childhood Vaccine Schedule and the Recommended Adult Vaccine Schedule.

I think you have the pertussis vaccine (whooping cough) somewhat confused with the seasonal influenza vaccine.

Tell us about the whopping cough or whooping cough vaccine trials; whooping whole cell pertussis vaccine has been used to immunize infants and children since the mid 1940s and acellular pertussis vaccine used to immunize infants and children for more than 20 years.

Have you gotten your Tdap booster vaccine yet? I have.

EvanE
EvanE

The hell they do.  Prove it.  PROVE IT!  NEVER BEEN SHOWN!  EVER!  There are no control studies but one and it showed the flu shot was an epic failure in EVERY measurable sense!  All the anecdotal evidence indicates vaccinated kids are sicker in general health and very often get the very diseases they are 'protected' against more than kids left alone (the way 200 million years of mammalian evolution intended).    

MikeStevens1
MikeStevens1

@DoritReiss@ariver9@JohnStoneAnd when Japan pulled MMR off the market, thanks to scaremongering from Wakefield et al, they prompted several measles epidemics affecting around 250,000 kids with dozens of deaths. 

Sarah_A
Sarah_A

No worries, I've made the exact same mistake myself.  I tried putting the quote in italics but it appears this comments section isn't set up for html formatting.  Thanks for fixing the link.



AlbusNerdisky
AlbusNerdisky

@EvanE@AlbusNerdisky@redfox


I can imagine you using Google and/or Pubmed and searching for “double blind saline placebo vaccine” that way you could fact- check the anti-vaccs.


But I bet you wouldn’t….because then you would know the truth:that the anti-vaccs are a scam and that they play people for fools.


Thanks for making this so very clear.


Cheers,


W&N


DoritReiss
DoritReiss

@EvanE  here is a blog post and article addressing this directly: Blog post: http://complexitydaemon.wordpress.com/2013/03/14/answering-hpv-concerns/

Article: http://www.infectagentscancer.com/content/8/1/22

ON this issue: "Q1: How do we know the HPV vaccine will prevent cancer?

A1: The first HPV vaccine was registered for use in Australia in 2006. Because of the long lead time from HPV infection to the development of cancer, we are currently unable to definitively measure the success of HPV vaccination in reducing the incidence of cervical, or other HPV linked cancers. However, HPV vaccination has already been shown to reduce both HPV infections and HPV-associated pre-cancerous cervical lesions.

The reason we expect a reduction in the rate of certain cancers is by understanding how the virus works. The HPV virus triggers a series of genetic changes, specifically changes in the genes that regulate additional cancer-causing genes. Over time these cells replicate, leading to pre-cancerous lesions in some cases and cervical cancer in others.
 HPV is associated with 99.7% of cervical cancers and is considered a necessary causative factor of cervical cancer. This is despite the knowledge that not every HPV infection progresses to CIN and then to cancer."

AlbusNerdisky
AlbusNerdisky

@EvanE


Hey,


Here is a study looking at overall health of vaccinated kids vs 100% unvaccinated.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3057555/


Guess what:vaccinated kids were healthier.


The evidence is overwhelming:the anti-vaccs are a healthcare scam and they prey upon folks too clueless to use Google…or to understand what a control is….or to understand the difference between flu and HPV…much less actually understand the studies.


Thanks again,


W&N


lilady
lilady

@EvanEThat's a bald faced lie.  Show us with citations from first tier peer reviewed medical journals that kids are made ill from vaccines and that kids immunized against every vaccine-preventable-diseases are infected with killed viruses or partial viruses or polysaccharide outer coverings of the bacteria as contained in vaccines.

DoritReiss
DoritReiss

@EvanE every vaccine has to pass clinical trials showing both safety and effectiveness and then is tracked post-market for both. There is no credible evidence showing vaccinated children are sicker. There is, however, a lot of evidence showing dramatically higher levels of vaccine preventable diseases in the unvaccinated. 

When children were left alone, before vaccines, only one out of four or five reached adulthood. Excuse me if I don't want to go back to those days.