When Stay-at-Home Husbands Are Embarrassing to Their Wives

We simply haven't evolved to the point where a househusband is considered desirable

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There was big news flash splashed across the front page of Sunday’s New York Times: superachieving moms on Wall Street have househusbands! The article pointed to a tenfold increase (since 1980) in the number of women in finance with stay-at-home spouses, allowing them to achieve success without the distractions of domesticity and child rearing.

That formula shouldn’t surprise anyone. And I don’t doubt the uptick in the number of households where husband and wives are exchanging roles, but this arrangement isn’t really new. The real news is that until recently, no one wanted to admit it.

I’ve been covering the elite echelons of big law firms for over 10 years, and I can tell you that many of the women who make it to the top of the heap often have a man at home who’s shepherding the kids around town, planning the meals, and otherwise keeping the hearth fired up. Indeed, you can go to any number of big firms in New York City where there’s a modicum of female partners (the national average for female equity partners has barely surpassed 16%), and the buzz among the associates is that those women in power are either unattached or married to men who stay at home. “They seem to belong to some sort of househusband club,” said one associate about the female partners with kids at Davis Polk & Wardwell. They just didn’t like to talk about it.

(MORE: Judith Rodin and the Myth of Women ‘Having It All’)

I sensed that reluctance when I did a story on female partners at big Wall Street firms with househusbands a few years ago. Though three couples were happy to speak to me on the record about their arrangement, many more bowed out about going public. “My husband and I talked it over, and we’re not comfortable with the scrutiny,” said one partner.

Often, successful women are loath to admit that their husband is really the one minding the home. “He has primary responsibility for the kids, but he also works on the side,” explained one partner about how her husband spends his time. But when pressed about what type of work the husband does, the reply is often vague. “He’s doing consulting” is a popular explanation.

All of this points to our entrenched ambivalence about changing gender roles. Men in these situations often feel alienated, particularly if they are surrounded by stay-at-home moms. But the power moms with the stay-at-home husbands are just as uneasy, often more embarrassed than proud that they’ve upset the traditional order.

(MORE: The Truth About Men, Women and Work)

We simply haven’t evolved to the point where a househusband is considered desirable, much less normal. But the publication of the New York Times article suggests that this atypical arrangement might be more palatable if the wife makes an outrageous amount of money. In one instance, the husband put the brakes on his architecture career when his banker wife started to make twice his earnings. At that point, “the solution seemed obvious.”

What remains to be seen is what happens when the economics are not so “obvious” — when women work at more pedestrian, less lucrative jobs. Given the unease about reversing gender roles when there is a superearner in the equation, I’m not sure we’re ready to have June Cleaver go to work and Ward Cleaver stay home with the boys after all.

Chen is the creator and chief blogger of the Careerist and a senior reporter at the American Lawyer. The views expressed are solely her own.

122 comments
OffendedMan
OffendedMan

"We simply haven't evolved to the point where a househusband is considered desirable"


I'm curious about this, Vivia Chen:   Haven't we been told for the past fifty years that house WIVES are not desirable?   That a woman who stays at home is wasting her life?   Then why are you so eager to have men stay home and, presumably,  waste their lives?   Are you eager to completely flip the fantasy roles of the 1950s and have super-uber-women out bouncing from bed to bed while their cuckolded husbands stay at home and mix their martinis?    No doubt you are.    


No worries here, though.   To paraphrase Napoleon, a society that does not respect its men will soon learn to respect someone else's.   

R3db1rd
R3db1rd

I am a stay-at-home dad. I love my kids dearly but it's not my choice. Ironically , I have a college degree and my wife does not. The one thing that she does have is her good looks. My father is a business owner and he said that instead of hiring me, he would rather hire someone well....Ladies and gentlemen we need to put an end to this lifestyle it'll never be acceptable. In the above article the woman said she has had a seed but no need for a father and would rather hire a nanny.That just goes to show you the level of misandry in this world. Guys this is unacceptable, we need to man up you know, I'm saying like spray the corner at your house. We have testosterone not estrogen. Don't even make me go biblical because we know that this is against G-d No wonder this place is going down the toilet. Peace and hope everyone had a Merry CHRISTmas.

JaneAnderson
JaneAnderson

"We simply haven’t evolved to the point where a househusband is considered desirable, much less normal."


Well, at least you admit evolution might play some role in this. Women are generally more willing to date an overweight man than vice versa. This is because, for many eons, a man's role was to provide for his family, so women evolved to tolerate less than perfect genes if the man appeared to be a good provider. Men tend to be more picky about looks because women were the ones who brought up children through history, so men focused more on genes. What we label physically attractive are often symptoms of good health. While men and women generally agree about what makes a partner attractive, their priorities are different. Appearance ranks high on most men's lists for women they are attracted to, as is a highly nurturing personality. Success is high on most women's lists for men they are attracted to, as is loyalty (commitment/monogamy) and courage (most men defended the family from threats, including war). Some of this truly is evolving, as modern women are identifying kindness and empathy as ideal traits in men, and modern men or more likely these days to seek women with high intellectual achievement, particularly since modern women accomplish more, academically. The highly successful women, as well as their husbands, fear the men will be deemed unsuccessful if they admit the guys are house-husbands. The evidence that these men are talented and intellectually capable is actually the fact that highly successful women married them, but they both feel as ashamed as a husband (and his wife) would feel if somebody mistakenly thought the wife weighed 300 pounds. The wife who says "he engages in consulting on the side" is like the husband who says about his large wife "she had to have her thyroid removed". Few women feel the need to explain their husband's weight. Perhaps he just likes pie, and that's fine with her. Because society assumes that fathers are less attuned and nurturing to their children than mothers, or that overweight women are under less stress than overweight men, giving no explanation leaves people with the erroneous impression that the house-husband or large wife is lazy. So it's these assumptions (double standards) that need to change. House-husbands are inherently no more lazy than housewives, just as overweight women are no more lazy than overweight men. They deserve equal amounts of respect.

valeriebwelch72
valeriebwelch72

"The views expressed are solely her own."


Truer words were never spoken. I am the proud wife of a stay-at-home-dad. 


"I’ve been covering the elite echelons of big law firms for over 10 years..."


So what? Excuse the hell out of the rest of us who "work at more pedestrian, less lucrative jobs." Speaking of pedestrian, is TIME magazine actually paying you to write this? I'm no journalist, but here's a news flash: your friends at a few law firms don't even represent the rest of New York City, let alone the rest of the country. 

markbildner
markbildner

There are plenty of SAHD's and wives who are incredibly proud of who they are and what they do.  If many of us don't want to be named in an article, it is because we do not want to be a poster child for a cause.  We aren't doing this to change the world.  We want to raise our kids.  I guarantee you the other partners know what these men do, and so do their friends, families, and the co-workers from their prior occupations.


Lastly, when making work/life choices, nothing is "simple", and you should refrain from making such categorical conclusions about a large group of people based on a few conversations and your personal intuition.  It is unfair to your story subjects and frankly sounds like the judgmental attitude common to the mommy wars.  Well, we are dads and we don't need it.

Ceunei
Ceunei

I just happen to be the Stay At Home Parent because I was a truck driver...my spouse has the steady job, but is just as able to do what I am doing as I am. My job entails housework, but it isn't the only thing I do. My list of duties is long, but considered of no consequence because I don't bring in income and I am merely available to our child when needed.


I will never call myself a House Wife, and, I hope men will not settle for being called House Husbands, either. Demeaning gender specific titles. But, my primary job is Parent. I have only about a year left of the SAHP gig as it turns out I have a one baby body. Don't worry, my little family has been properly punished for daring to afford a Stay At Home Parent on my spouse's excellent for a single person and diminishing since his company learned we got married salary. We are giving up our house. I am a mom not a Super Mom who can rush about doing all the jobs SAHP entails along with bringing home the other half of the bacon the Corporates obviously expect me to do while leaving the parenting of my child from ages 0-5 to the cheapest day care we can find...so...


Live with the shame of doing the housework and raising those kiddos, House Spouses. I know I sure am. LOLOLOLOLOLOL

AlWatts
AlWatts

Definitely, more people are accepting dads in this role as the stay-at-home parent. The dads themselves are also embracing the role in many circumstances. That is a societal shift. As a stay-at-home dad for 11 years, I have seen this happening.


What is off the mark in this post is that men are becoming the stay-at-home parent even when their wives are in less lucrative careers. My wife only made slightly more than me at the time I started staying home. If you studied this more than talked to a few high earning women, you would find many families in the more pedestrian income levels who have stay-at-home dads. Moms who are nurses, teachers or sales reps have husbands who stay home. Most of those men did not have careers that outlearned their wives but some of them did. I know lawyers who are now stay-at-home dads. I knew a doctor who quit surgical residence to be a stay-at-home dad and his wife worked in non-profit. 


Your assumption that this arrangement only applies in one way and only with the super rich moms is not accurate.

Dad-On-The-Run
Dad-On-The-Run

As a stay home dad, I find your post off the mark. I had a good job, my wife had a better one. We wanted one of us to stay home and raise our children. It's an easy decision and most of us who shrug off "traditional gender roles" also choose not to give much thought to what John Q Public, Time, or the NYTimes thinks about what we are doing. We are doing what makes sense to our households. A wife who isn't proud of her husband (or vice versa) is a sign of an unhealthy relationship, not a symptom of changing too many diapers or not working in a job where "a man should" work. 


dad-on-the-run.blogspot.com

Jackson4
Jackson4

I'm a stay-at-home Dad and a house husband.  It is the best gig ever.  I used to have a high paying position on Wall Street, then managed a mutual fund, then was the CFO of a start-up business, so I'm no stranger to the workforce and high-pressure jobs.  It sucked having to deal with jerks in the work world every day, travel to places I didn't want to be, go to meetings I didn't want to be at, and basically deal with idiots every day.  But I did it to provide for my family.  When my wife's career took off, we decided I would stay at home with our two kids who are now in school.  It's wonderful.  Wife leaves at 7, I drop off at school at 8:00, then seven hours to do basically anything I want.  A few chores in the morning, no big deal - cleaning, laundry, yardwork, pool maintenance, whatever...easy, mindless stuff.  Run a few errands here and there.  Walk the dog.  Then it's off the gym for as long as I want, or maybe 9 holes of golf.  Lots of hot women out there during the day to flirt with.  Kids get home at 3, help out with some homework, maybe throw a ball around, drop off at soccer practice.  Flirt with the soccer moms.  Make dinner, clean up.  Make sure the wife is taken care of emotionally and physically.  Get a good night's sleep.  Lather, rinse, repeat.


I feel like I won the lottery.

TheJasonGreene
TheJasonGreene

I'm married to one of those lawyers in NYC and neither one of us care what people think. All we care about is what is in the best interest of our children. My wife goes off to work every day and can be at ease that no matter what occurs throughout the day, that her husband will be handling it. And that June and Ward Cleever part, was that taken from the NYC Dad's Group response to the story?

rachluvr
rachluvr

Being a house husband is a great deal.  My wife's career is great, and I was worn out from working (in fact I was able to retire early and I jumped at the chance.)  Household chores are not that difficult and I enjoy cooking (most of the time) and having enough energy to be a real father to my kids.  That last point is a big deal. 

Pro-tip for guys> look for a woman who is compassionate and has her emotional head together and has a good education.  "Beautiful" women can wear thin awfully fast.

Schmuck281
Schmuck281

Is there supposed to be some point to this column other that getting paid per column inch? If so, I am unable to detect it. For all the breathless prose it is pretty much a "So What?"

megalon98133
megalon98133

The root of all of this is women don't know what they want. They want careers taken from men, but don't want men taking the home role. They want a man who's a rebel, but will do whatever she wants. They want a man who's in charge and aggressive, but is actually tender. Women's Rights = Chaos.

XiraArien1
XiraArien1

Divorce statistics put paid to that feminist lie. Every month a man is unemployed increases the risk that she'll leave him by 2.4%, up to 70% at 2.5 years. Her employment has no effect on divorce rates. He is not more likely to leave her if he is unemployed.


Men are expected to work long hours and 'bring home the bacon', if they don't they are considered useless and disposed of. Any woman who tells you she doesn't care how much her husband earns is lying.


Feminists talk a good game, but they don't put their money where their mouths are.


Men have changed their gender expectations to fit the times. Women are still stuck in the 50's.

sybaris63
sybaris63

My step-daughter has a stay-at-home-husband. He's 30. His greatest achievement in life was at 18 when he got his high school diploma. He does well to get out of his PJ's by 2:00 PM.

No, I'm not complaining. It doesn't affect me. Just pointing out that some women are okay with lazy husbands.

VictorVillarreal
VictorVillarreal

We can all relate to wealthy new York law firm worker, am I right? Lol. Thats the growing problem with the media, they only report from their bubble (thats looking more and more like France before the rich were beheaded) and blanket the rest of the nation for being the same. I'm 27, patent holder and weldor. I've made enough so that I can stay at home with the kids like my dad couldnt Because of the long hours he put in to give us a better life since he was a non american. If a woman couldn't handle a man who takes care of "the house" and takes care of her, mentally and physically... Her loss. If my wife is good at what she does, then i'll be right there to cheer her on as she does for me. I swear, this article seems as if men at home are having "Mary Kay" parties or something, if my wife should cheat and she was the "breadwinner" I would take her to the legal cleaners and have sole custody of the kids as I would think she would do to me. I think raising boys and girls to be strong men and women is one of the most manliest things ever! Yeah, I can cook and bake and fix a girls hair... But I can also Mame someone with the same hands (thanks army). These old gender stereotypes are lame, this is the 21st century and you need a broad skill set to thrive. The days of the male "hunter" are over... Now you need to know how to "hunt AND gather" in this world.  

TanmayLololAnaisPradhan
TanmayLololAnaisPradhan

I dont see what the fuss is. I am very confident and overachieving. I am more than happy to support my partner.

I don't get an inferiority complex around smart and talented women. I believe they should go as far as they can, and I am more than happy to be a teamplayer.

The guys who talk about beta male this and that, obviously have self esteem issues. Self assured people don't need to put others down to feel good.

The girls, like the author, who get 'embarassed' by their other half, either don't get the whole husband/wife team thing, have lazy slobs for hubbies, are too immature or have grown up with preconcieved notions of feminity and masculinity, that are just plain bull.

So really, I don't care for the naysayers. Their is no dearth of stupid people saying stupid things. Its great for partners to put their own needs aside for the good of the team.

Really, that is all there is to it. Its the mature adults in the room who can deal with this, not childish oafs.

fethez.herman
fethez.herman

@OffendedMan  


Paraphrase: "is a restatement of the meaning of a text or passage using other words."


Napoleon said that about religion, not men. I know the site you got that quote from though, and they have no interest in equality. Follow the money, how they spend it, and the sort of people they view as their enemies.

LauraWagenaar-Buit
LauraWagenaar-Buit

@JaneAndersonI think I appreciate your sentiment, but you seem to be a little confused about evolution. Evolution is a long term process, long term as in thousands, millions of years, far beyond the scope of short lived human lives. The traits organisms acquire through evolution are not subject to the rapid changes you describe in societal norms about gender. What does happen very often is that societal norms are justified using the good scientific standing of evolution. Just like you do when stating that men are evolutionary developed to be attracted to good looks while women look for a good provider. If this was truly the result of evolution, it would hardly have been possible to emancipate women within a century which is what has happened in western societies at least. (Documentation for other societies, now or in the past, is fragmentary at best, so I am always reluctant to focus on seemingly universal traits of human societies.) Human beings have evolved as a species with a certain type of procreation requiring male and female gametes. This is undoubtedly a result of evolution. The assumptions made around personality traits being based on gender are in my opinion mostly culturally constructed. The rapid change of female roles in society support my notion. Many men are now showing how they are perfectly happy (and capable!) being primary caregivers and homemakers. They are not behaving contrary to evolution. That is a value judgement that hurts individual freedom and choice as you underline with your last statement. So let's please leave evolution out of this discussion, it creates such murky waters (goes for the author as well by the way) :)


singforsupper
singforsupper

@markbildner  


Dear Mark Bildner:


I understand that you "don't want to be named in an article... because we do not want to be a poster child for a cause." Mark, I just want you to know that having a username that is your name isn't so clever if you don't "want to be named."


LauraWagenaar-Buit
LauraWagenaar-Buit

@Dad-On-The-RunLove your comment but I would agree with the author that 'a wife who isn't proud of her husband' is (also) a sign of social norms devaluing their specific set-up. I think the topic of stay at home dads is pointing to still very strong social norms concerning masculinity and valuable careers. I love that more men and families are challenging those norms, but for now, they are going against mainstream currents. 

I am the wife of a stay at home dad (or parent, as I prefer) and I have lived through the comments: "wow, that must be tough for you, being a single provider" (subtext: "a woman likes to be/should be provided for") or "doesn't he have any ambitions? (subtext: "why would you be married to a slob?"/"men who do not have traditional careers are slobs."). It's hard not to be affected by such questions. I know I have had to do some 'emotion work' to regain confidence. A journey that inspired me to dedicate my master thesis in sociology to this very topic :)

Obbop
Obbop

"emotional head together"

Well, that narrowed the choices down to around 150 out of 160 million USA dames.

LauraWagenaar-Buit
LauraWagenaar-Buit

@megalon98133You confuse 'women' with 'culture'. No worries, it's an easy mistake to make. Women as a group do not exist, we do not have a collective consciousness, we do not all have the same urges, wishes or wants, nor do we attend secret women society meetings where we plan for world domination (I've always wondered how such a convention would be organized or where for that matter). However, we live in a culture that continuously pits women and men against each other in an obsession with gender and sex differences, it's called the battle of the sexes. You can compete in it and become bitter and cynical, like, well, you. Or you can see that no one is plotting any conspiracy against you, let alone an imaginary collective of women, but that we are all more or less bound by social forces that are beyond individual grasp but luckily not immune to change.

LauraWagenaar-Buit
LauraWagenaar-Buit

@XiraArien1Statistics are not stable facts. They represent cultural habits that are subject to change. Your estimation of the effects of unemployment only proofs the need for feminism or a fight for gender/sex equality at least, because it proofs that effects of the same event (unemployment) differ based on your sex. Replace male/female in your example with black/white and you will find your statement very racist. I do not hold this against you, popular discourse has informed your thinking, but your view is sexist in nature. 

Your conclusion is that these statistics prove that men and women have discernible characters, behavior and opinions based on their sex. What they prove to me is that different socialization of men and women yields differences in characters, behavior and opinions and that this calls for a movement that challenges such differences in socialization based on gender. Feminism has been such a movement because, let's face it, women suffered more from cultural gender biases than men like being excluded from jobs, voting or the ability to sign legal contracts. You are right that cultural ideas about masculinity need some opening up, but that will never be achieved through sexism.

lovism
lovism

@XiraArien1 i do believe many feminists are misguided. My parents both work, my mom cooks, my dad washes clothes. Right now I cook AND wash clothes for my wife, coz she's working longer hrs and doesn't like to cook. And im sure i ll be taking care of the kids too. Looking around, ALL of my friends handle more or less the same amount of house chore. None of them think it's by right the domain of women. Times HAVE changed; MEN have changed, at least enlightened, wife- and kid- and mother-loving men. Feminists are like those soldiers stuck in the jungle who think the WW is still going on when in fact it has ended some time ago.

LauraWagenaar-Buit
LauraWagenaar-Buit

@sybaris63So he is representative for all stay at home husbands? I do not doubt that he lacks some initiative but what is your point really? You may not be complaining but it sounds a lot like a very judgmental thing to say from where I'm sitting...

thiswarytown
thiswarytown

@sybaris63 strangely enough, you make it sound like it's her fault for having a "lazy" husband.

LauraWagenaar-Buit
LauraWagenaar-Buit

@MayaWillisYeah and women need to go back into the home where they belong! You are being very sexist Maya Willis, I just hope you realize.

Obbop
Obbop

USA dames need to squawk and cluck their demands for equality!!!!  Females MUST also be required by law to sign up for the military draft or face serious consequences for failure to do so!!!!!


Along with equal rights and privileges come equal responsibilities... something the little girls appear to forget all-too-often.


And I have yet to see, hear or read a single dame demand that criminal sentencing be equalized to get rid of the frequent lesser sentencing for females even when they commit the same crime as the more severely sentenced male.

BrynnDiesel
BrynnDiesel

Hahaa! First you start off with 'Self assured people don't need to put others down to feel good'.
 Then continue to put the author and people the article is about down with 'The girls, like the author, who get 'embarassed' by their other half, either don't get the whole husband/wife team thing, have lazy slobs for hubbies, are too immature or have grown up with preconcieved notions of feminity and masculinity, that are just plain bull.' and finished with 'It's the mature adults in the room that can deal with this not the childish oafs.'


apples.oranges
apples.oranges

@LauraWagenaar-Buit @JaneAnderson  


Laura, you are absolutely killing it in this thread but I have to take exception to your rebuttal to Jane. You seem to be disregarding one of the definitions of evolution which is the iterative change of  THINGS over time. It isn't limited to biological processes.




Jane is absolutely correct (in my opinion) in a rough history of "how did we get here?". That IS evolution. Maybe not in the Darwinian sense but it still fits the description of "gradual change over time". 




I'm also curious by your "it would hardly have been possible to emancipate women within a century" comment as the last I knew the "western world" was settled in ~ 1600 (sorry natives) and women's suffrage didn't occur for another 300+ years.




I know it seems like I'm trying to argue with you but I honestly saw about 6 responses from you and agreed on every single point except these two.

mengqianyu
mengqianyu

@LauraWagenaar-Buit @Dad-On-The-Run  I''d love to read a paper dedicated to this topic! My dad is a stay-at-home dad (it's only till today that I find out that this term does exist) and for quite a long time during my adolescence, I had a hard time understanding him about his "choice". Yes, his choice because sometimes I just can't help but think that he chose to live this life (which I considered underachieving) because he's a "slob" or he was lazy and chose the easy way of life. And that always led to an ugly fight between me and him. I'm so ashamed when thinking of those fights...

I love my dad and I know my dad loves me and has always been a good dad for me. Still this kind of thought just pops up sometimes. I know I am deeply affected by the social norm and should give my dad more understanding. So the thesis you are working on is something I look forward to a lot!

VictorVillarreal
VictorVillarreal

@Treeoflife @VictorVillarreal lol, I dont have to, those type of men will always be around.. I see it more like the "gay rights" kinda thing. There will always be people that dont like you or your way of life but with enough time it turn into something where if the topic comes up, people won't care. Its like people coming out as gay, I live in texas and while the media only shows the bad parts many, many people are getting to the point where if someone comes out its like.... "Ok... Does it affect me in anyway? No? Cool," of course I speak of younger people. Now I'm reading the comments about "alpha male this and that" are people still that "black and white"? Yeah... I'm not, sometimes I take charge of the situation if I feel I'm better at the subject at hand, sometimes i'll let her take charge because its not my strength (the subject) and learn. Here in texas its a very "macho" culture based on false bravato, many... Many gay men (I know this because I treat straight men the same as gay, if you're nice to me, i'll be nice back) and so much insecurity! The flip side of so much macho attitude is so much cheating by the women when their husband is in the oilfields or are deployed. Personal I like a woman who can handle herself, I've always said "I would rather have a strong queen to rule by my side then a princess".

LauraWagenaar-Buit
LauraWagenaar-Buit

@ObbopOr maybe we should stop the draft for men because the cultural framework for men is just as oppressive even if it prescribes dominance. Just read all the 'beta-male' comments here to know that not being considered an alpha male by standard definitions makes you subhuman as a man and target practice for bullies. I am so glad I am not a man in this day and age.


There are double standards, no doubt, but do you really suggest that women should give up the right to vote or work because they do not sign up for the draft? I would be vehemently against those consequences for any man who cannot in good consciousness sign up for the army because it goes against his believes. 

Plus, there are many women in the army! They get raped and abused, yes, true, but they're still dying in battle same as any man (which they fought very hard for to achieve by the way: the right to die in battle same as men, don't you read the news? I'm not even American and I know that women just got granted the right to fight in the front lines in the US army, so effectively they fought for the right to die in battle, those little girls.)

JeanOcelot
JeanOcelot

True.  When a male teacher has an "impropriety" with a female teenage student, it's lock him up and throw away the key.  When a female teacher has the same with a male teenage student, it's almost "you go girl!"

TomiRoshi
TomiRoshi

@AnthonyDavey1 @MayaWillis there will always be a power struggle in any relationship especially when two alpha personalities are involved.  The old say about one alpha dog in a pack is true.  The power dynamics become who is going to be dominant or submissive at any given moment.  Who is going to have the final say on any given subject. In general the one with money, power or fame in the relationship will dominant.  Why men look for the hottest prospect their money will attract and women look for the wealthiest man their looks will lure in.  It's Darwinian.  

TanmayLololAnaisPradhan
TanmayLololAnaisPradhan

@BrynnDiesel Its called being a parent. Its not for everybody. And its definitely not for egocentric people who get "embarassed" by raising a child. Better a househusband, than a selfish pr*ck who is never there for the kid.

I know you won't get it. I don't expect you to. But for heaven's sake don't breed. There's enough bad parents on the planet already.

Openminded1
Openminded1

@JeanOcelot I had  a high school teacher teach me the fine art of love making and BJ,s at the age of 17, I love her for it and will never forget her. She was the best part of high school. I sure as hell did not complain to anyone.

TomiRoshi
TomiRoshi

@Treeoflife @TomiRoshi @AnthonyDavey1 @MayaWillis


Do tell, what's a gamma? Besides a Greek letter or a high energy photon.